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[Music]

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the smoke radio

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for the masses headline edition july 8

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1947

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the army air forces has announced that a

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flying disk has been found and is now in

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the possession of the army

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if the game is rigged change the game

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game changer

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i occasionally think how quickly our

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differences worldwide

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would vanish if we were facing an alien

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threat

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this is fade to black with your host

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jimmy church

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on the game changer radio network and

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kgra

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i need your help to get to the year

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[Music]

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1985.

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[Music]

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you're listening to fate to black with

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jimmy judge on the game changer network

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[Music]

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fade to black

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[Music]

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bespoke radio for

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[Music]

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how you doing today's tuesday

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february 16 2021

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47 days into the new year 318 days

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we are live from a bunker somewhere in

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the middle of beautiful downtown burbank

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california

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and i would like to welcome everybody

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listening all around the world all

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across the united states

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hither and tither to and fro

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back and forth up and down east and west

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north and south

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far and near this is fade to black for

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kjcr the game changer network

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and kgra the planets

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i am your host jimmy church what is

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cracking everybody how you doing

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yeah man

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[Music]

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tonight right here on fade to black

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richard dodie joins us for the first

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time

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that's right that is tonight calling

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this show tonight

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you know it really goes spy games i said

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that's it that's it that's it that's it

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that's it

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there you go so that's the show

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tonight's going to be great

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tomorrow night right here on fade to

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black

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cherie and tony rathman we're going to

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be talking about

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ghost hunting they've got

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tony um i bet you shari's the designer

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uh tony builds the most amazing spirit

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boxes

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and and gear and i've been watching

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uh his little uh travels uh uh building

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this new uh

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reverse speech box now

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and i believe we'll talk more about this

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tomorrow night because i

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already checked it out but i need his

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explanation

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the sound the bank the sound bank

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programmed into it is reverse speech

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but i think what's coming out of it is

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is correct so i don't i don't know

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i i don't know it's an impressive

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looking device though

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um so anyway that's tomorrow night and

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then thursday night of course

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is another fader night with open lines

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all night long i remember

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now this goes back uh a number of years

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but i remember

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um uh i don't want to say who it was but

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this goes back

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when we were on um our bells network

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ah man i can't remember the name of that

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uh dm um dark matter

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geez has it been that long

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and somebody over there suggested hey

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you need to do an

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open lines night just open lines i was

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like

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ah really and

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i think it was their way of getting

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another night of fade to black

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you know because of the numbers um but

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i was reticent i was like i i don't

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and i just remember how much fun it was

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and

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great mood we've got a busy week

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this week it all started on sunday night

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with our

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uh very special first time sunday night

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uh going live

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uh with marla martinson it was

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valentine's day

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um and we've got this week and then

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of course thursday night's fader night

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friday

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is the conscious life expo and uh

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and if you haven't got your tickets yet

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you've got to go into it

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and uh head over to jimmychurchradio.com

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we've got banners right there you can

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just click and go

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but uh and so that's this friday

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saturday and sunday and

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uh and then monday is another week of

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fade to black

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and and there you go it's uh 12 straight

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days

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of whack love it

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love it wouldn't have it any other way

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and uh it was really funny earlier today

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i was uh speaking with richard dolan and

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uh

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he wanted to eat and i it was like this

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uh the

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the call was about you know okay so what

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do you you know we're gonna do this

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thing on saturday and i'm very excited

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about it uh what are we gonna talk about

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i said richard

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uh let's just let's just talk yeah but

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what if i wanted to

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no no if you

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had images or something that you wanted

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to that means

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it was premeditated and that that ain't

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it just ain't going to happen it's not

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going to happen he said exactly

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and so that was our that was our

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pre-production

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call okay so that's it then right that's

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it

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gonna see where the

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evening takes us he said jimmy i can't

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wait it's gonna be great but that's

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uh that's going to be saturday night uh

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the keynote with uh richard dolan and i

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that's going to be

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amazing so you want to go get your

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tickets now consciously

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expo.com with all of that follow me on

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twitter

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at j church radio all right

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follow me on twitter hashtag f2b is the

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sandbox hashtag f2bq is fade to black

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questions

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chat rooms are open i know youtube has

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already started the trouble over there

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youtube is up facebook is up hello to

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everybody on facebook how you

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doing everybody over at kgra

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everybody over at tsl

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how are you doing the spreaker chat room

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how are you guys doing out there right

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now

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it's uh it's gonna be a great night on

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the show um uh now this is the point

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in the show where i give out my twitter

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and then the guest

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that we have on the show live each night

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i give you their twitter richard doty

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is not on twitter so when

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uh you're gonna post it up right now

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you're gonna say what's richards

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he doesn't have a twitter all right

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there you go there's a lot of richard

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dodie's on twitter by the way i don't

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think

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any of those are him so there you go

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all right let's get to

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the breaking news a deep freeze

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continues

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in texas well actually across

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the united states heading up into the

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northeast but right now

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texas is in a deep freeze

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texas which relies on electricity to

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heat

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many homes all right they they need

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electricity for that just like uh

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over here at our house um in burbank

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that's

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a gas heater i guess some people do

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right

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natural gas maybe i don't know how that

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works

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um oil right

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all that no no they depend on

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electricity there

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now at the same time in texas natural

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gas coal wind in nuclear facilities in

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texas

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all have been knocked offline by

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unthinkably

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low temperatures four to five million

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people are currently without power and

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today the city of austin's

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austin energy a publicly owned utility

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company providing electrical power to

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the city of austin

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is telling residents not to expect power

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to return

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through tuesday night and possibly

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longer

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now in the united states we have three

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electric

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grids we have the east we have

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the west and then we have texas

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okay many texas has their own electrical

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grid that's it

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many are putting the blame on this

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independence when the strain was put on

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texas

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and its grid because of the cold the

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great state

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didn't have anything to tap into now

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today the texas state house announced an

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investigation in joint hearings that

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will take place

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later this month to look into the

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widespread power outages

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across the state somebody's got some

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now going down on thursday i announced

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this last night i'm going to announce it

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again tonight i'm going to announce it

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tomorrow

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because this is a big deal nasa's latest

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mars rover perseverance is going to try

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for a dramatic touchdown on the red

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planet

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this thursday now it's going down in the

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afternoon

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okay nasa will provide live

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coverage of the landing nasa's tv

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broadcast from mission control kicks off

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this thursday february 18th

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at 11 15 a.m pacific time

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so what is that on the east coast that's

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2

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p.m eastern time touchdown

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in the jazzero crater on mars is

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scheduled for around 12

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30 p.m pacific

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time that's 3 30 p.m eastern time you're

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not

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going to want to miss this gonna be

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great live

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you've seen all the movies you've seen

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the animation you've seen the recreate

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this

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is live i cannot wait you remember they

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got a little helicopter this time they

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got a drone a helicopter drone

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the drag is the drone that they're gonna

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launch

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doesn't have a camera on it now i don't

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know

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they are gonna launch a helicopter

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all right okay so somehow we'll get to

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see that too hopefully

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let's get this show cracking happy

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birthday to today the one and only

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iced tea iced tea

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today is 63 years old

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christopher eccleston today is 57 you

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know christopher from doctor who

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i know him from the leftovers

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man i missed that series that was a good

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series def leppard

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oh gee pete willis

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man founding member def leppard today

288
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:06,480
61 years old duran duran's guitarist

289
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,720
andy taylor today 60 years old our dead

290
00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:12,480
guy's birthday today is i need a moment

291
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:14,800
of silence check this out

292
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:18,399
otis blackwell 1932-2002

293
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:22,480
died at the age of 71. now listen

294
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:25,760
fever don't be cruel

295
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:29,199
great balls of fire all shook up

296
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:33,040
return to sender handyman

297
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:34,480
these were some of the greatest songs

298
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:36,399
ever and they were all

299
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:40,079
written by otis blackwell

300
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:43,360
otis composed more than 1 000 songs

301
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:47,120
with a worldwide sales tally of over 200

302
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,720
million records

303
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,639
now although he wrote some of elvis

304
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:52,240
biggest hits

305
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,440
he never met him in person did not

306
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:57,839
presley's manager colonel tom parker

307
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:59,680
asked otis to appear in the pressly

308
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:00,399
movie

309
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:03,360
girls girls girls for which he had

310
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:04,079
written

311
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:06,880
return to sender right but a

312
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:08,959
superstition about meeting pressly

313
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,199
kept him from accepting he was inducted

314
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:14,880
into the nashville songwriters hall of

315
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:17,040
fame in the national academy of popular

316
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,360
music songwriters hall of fame

317
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:22,079
and otis died of a heart attack in 19 in

318
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:23,360
2002

319
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:28,079
at the age of 71 in nashville tennessee

320
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:32,320
on this day in history otd 1923

321
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:36,480
it went down archaeologist howard carter

322
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:39,519
enters the sealed burial chamber

323
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:43,759
of king tut vader fact

324
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,040
all right here you go i did

325
00:16:51,790 --> 00:16:49,920
you know what i did not know this check

326
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:51,800
this out

327
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:56,079
101 years ago to the day

328
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:00,160
a massive storage tank filled with 2.3

329
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:04,400
million gallons of molasses

330
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:08,160
60 feet tall 90 feet wide

331
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:11,839
burst open in boston massachusetts

332
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:14,959
causing a sticky flood that coated

333
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:19,039
the city it spread at 35

334
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:22,240
miles per hour killing 21 people and

335
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:26,480
injured 150. everything was

336
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:29,520
sticky the smell of molasses

337
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:33,919
lingered in the area for decades

338
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:36,559
and that is your fader fact tonight

339
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:38,080
richard dodie is here

340
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,640
for the first time so get ready for that

341
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:42,080
he's joining us at the bottom of the

342
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:43,200
hour

343
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:45,840
tomorrow night cherie and tony rathman

344
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:47,039
we're going to be talking about ghost

345
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:47,600
hunting

346
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:50,480
gear yep and we've got some evps and

347
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,240
some really cool images

348
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:54,160
uh that we will be playing and showing

349
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:55,760
you tomorrow night during the show

350
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,360
and then thursday nights another fader

351
00:18:01,270 --> 00:17:59,280
night with open lines all night long

352
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:01,280
all right all right now let me hit this

353
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,390
river moon wellness dot com

354
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,320
that's where you want to go go to jimmy

355
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:17,919
churchill.com best

356
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:21,120
coffee in the world there is

357
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:24,880
none better none

358
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:29,120
fade to black blend i like my coffee doc

359
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:30,640
i'm gonna do it again right now just

360
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:43,669
so so this afternoon

361
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:47,039
i had van halen's fair warning album

362
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:50,240
fully cranked in the bunker

363
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:53,919
i did nothing better

364
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:56,960
and although this is classic van halen

365
00:19:02,070 --> 00:18:59,039
at their finest

366
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:02,080
it always puts me in a certain mood

367
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:06,000
fair warning had a different tone

368
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:08,160
to it not only with the guitars but it

369
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,880
was the songs right it starts off with

370
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:12,720
mean street

371
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:17,840
right and it it just puts me in a mood

372
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:22,000
a little angry a little concerned

373
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:24,720
a little smart that album will make you

374
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:26,720
smarter

375
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:31,200
and always on a mission marching

376
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:35,840
determined focused

377
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:37,840
that's what van halen's fair warning

378
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:39,520
does for me

379
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,480
and it was during this moment of clarity

380
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,720
today

381
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:46,880
when i thought about something that john

382
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:47,760
greenwald

383
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,960
said last night during the show

384
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:53,039
and it was this now i have to paraphrase

385
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:54,000
a little bit

386
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:55,440
i didn't go back and listen to it i

387
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:57,440
didn't transcribe it it's not word for

388
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:00,000
word but you'll get the message

389
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,120
john said something like quote

390
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:07,840
when you ask about what ttsa has done

391
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:08,480
lately

392
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:12,159
the reply and arguments are always

393
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:15,600
hey they got ufos in the new york times

394
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:18,640
ufos are now in mainstream media

395
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:21,679
they did that they did

396
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:28,230
so john continued with

397
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,760
i guess what they're saying is that we

398
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:32,000
should just stop research

399
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:34,960
in the ufo community and let the new

400
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:43,510
and this is one of the deepest thoughts

401
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:44,720
on the subject

402
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:48,720
i've heard in a very long time

403
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:52,400
that's a heavy statement contemplate

404
00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:59,909
i know that something like you know a

405
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:01,760
quote you know they got ufos in the new

406
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:03,200
york times ufos are now in the

407
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:04,720
mainstream media

408
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:08,320
i i i i know i know

409
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:12,320
it sounds like a juvenile answer

410
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:17,039
it does it's playground stuff

411
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:20,240
it just doesn't make any sense

412
00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:23,360
it's cool that it happened but that's

413
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:27,200
not an answer certainly not in a debate

414
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,240
it's not but this has been repeated

415
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:32,000
throughout social media over the last

416
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:33,200
couple of years

417
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,679
it's the basis of anyone defending ttsa

418
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:39,360
because they don't have anything else to

419
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:41,200
lean on that's all they got

420
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:43,760
right and i and i get that i get it i

421
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:46,080
totally understand

422
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:48,080
because today the heartbreak and the

423
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:49,440
emotion

424
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:57,270
and that was back when ttsa was still a

425
00:22:03,430 --> 00:21:59,280
thing by the way

426
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:03,440
today it really sucks

427
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:06,960
because now ttsa ain't a thing

428
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:11,120
ttsa is officially a footnote in history

429
00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:15,039
it's past tense it's over it's done

430
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:18,320
now when i say that they

431
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:26,789
i mean it because now it's a fact

432
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:30,159
this is 2021. ttsa is

433
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:36,950
so earlier today i know what you're

434
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:37,840
thinking to yourself

435
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:39,039
jimmy what's bringing all of this on

436
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:40,400
with me you know we've we've been

437
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:41,360
through this before

438
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:44,720
you know check this out earlier today

439
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:46,640
and i'm listening to van halen man i get

440
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:48,720
into a mood i get into a move when i

441
00:22:53,990 --> 00:22:50,000
listen to edward

442
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,000
all right because i was cruising

443
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:57,039
around through social media and and i i

444
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,880
was doing it

445
00:23:02,310 --> 00:23:00,320
because of something else i don't want

446
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:02,320
to say what and and all of that but it

447
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:03,039
was

448
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:05,440
totally believe it or not an unrelated

449
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:07,120
matter

450
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:09,440
all right so had to do with you know

451
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:10,799
somebody was ill

452
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:14,159
covered right so anyway

453
00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:17,520
one click led me to another and i found

454
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:20,000
myself in a 10 day old thread

455
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,360
now 10 days ago right today's the 16th

456
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:25,840
you know 10 12 days ago actually it was

457
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:27,120
a couple of threads

458
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:30,720
okay february 4th

459
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:35,200
5th 4th 3rd you know right in there

460
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:39,360
and everyone was just so

461
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:42,480
bitter so

462
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:45,840
what's the word i want to use oh i got

463
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:46,960
it

464
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:50,880
butt hurt

465
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:53,919
they were and

466
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:57,039
in a strange way

467
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:59,919
i kind of felt bad for everyone all

468
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:00,320
right

469
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:04,240
now they were all talking about lou

470
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:07,520
and fade to black and then the ufo

471
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:08,400
community

472
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:12,640
and and you know rest in peace ttsa

473
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:15,840
and and and and and attacks and things

474
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:16,240
from

475
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:20,559
people that i know too by the way

476
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:25,120
all right and

477
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:28,799
and i felt bad i felt bad i'm literally

478
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:30,159
looking at some of these leaders in the

479
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:32,000
community and i'm like man

480
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:35,279
you hooked your wagon to the wrong horse

481
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,200
that's that's what you got to be upset

482
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:39,440
with but seriously

483
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:42,720
they were all warned from the word

484
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:46,400
go and that was don't go all in

485
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:48,960
that's the best i can do give it time

486
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:50,480
that's what i said

487
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:54,159
but now they got nothing

488
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:56,960
and all they want to do is put the blame

489
00:25:01,990 --> 00:24:59,120
on the ufo community

490
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:02,000
this show and me personally and others

491
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:02,559
for not

492
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:06,000
supporting their mission like it's our

493
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:11,510
it was our fault for digging up dirt and

494
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:14,480
asking too many questions

495
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,360
come on man it's the ufo community it's

496
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:19,360
what we do

497
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:22,000
but they have to have someone to blame

498
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:22,720
it on

499
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:25,840
because they're upset but the real truth

500
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:27,679
and the bottom line is

501
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:31,520
nobody gives a crap i don't

502
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,640
i only stumbled upon this stuff not out

503
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,760
there looking forward i don't care i'm

504
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:37,919
not going to post i'm not i'm not

505
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,080
it's it's last year it's over

506
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:45,120
there's nobody from this side

507
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:49,279
saying i told you so we could

508
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:52,640
but we are not

509
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:01,909
now here's the deal there are those out

510
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:02,720
there

511
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:06,400
from the top down who chose to go

512
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:09,360
all in and you know who they are and

513
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:10,000
they chose

514
00:26:14,789 --> 00:26:13,360
this for good reason they thought things

515
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:14,799
were going to last

516
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,159
forever and they didn't

517
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:19,919
and now they are left outside in the

518
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:22,080
rain in the dark

519
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:24,559
looking through the orange glowing

520
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:27,120
windows and the party that is going on

521
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,230
where things are pretty friggin good

522
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:36,480
right now

523
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,360
so as i look out of the windows of our

524
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:41,520
cozy clubhouse to the dark wet

525
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:44,400
streets below with the murmuring going

526
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:45,520
on in the cold

527
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:49,520
mist remember these walls will stand

528
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:50,640
strong and defend

529
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:53,840
the ufo community for centuries to come

530
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:57,039
and we know that you want in you want to

531
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:59,279
have a seat at the table and enjoy a

532
00:27:03,590 --> 00:26:59,760
warm

533
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:03,600
meal well anything is possible but

534
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:08,159
it'll take some time because around here

535
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:11,919
we don't go all in

536
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:14,640
now just to wrap things up i had a

537
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:17,440
conversation today with uh

538
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:21,440
well his name rhymes with roland

539
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:24,960
yeah it was richard anyway uh

540
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:26,960
one of the things we talked about is

541
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,320
what happens

542
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:31,600
with tucker carlson

543
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:34,320
is tucker truly on board with the ufo

544
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:35,200
question and

545
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,720
is he going to continue with the

546
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:38,640
coverage that he started

547
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:41,679
honest question right or

548
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:45,120
now that ttsa is through maybe his

549
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:46,880
interest may have gone down a few

550
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,159
degrees honest question

551
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:52,000
will he cover the recent news from this

552
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:53,760
weekend about the pentagon and their

553
00:28:01,269 --> 00:27:57,760
quote ufo debris and if he does

554
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:01,279
who will be his talking head and ufo

555
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,960
expert these are important questions to

556
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:06,720
ask because

557
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:09,440
it just may be that the grand days of

558
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:11,120
old

559
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:13,919
not talking about ufos in the mass media

560
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:17,120
may be put on hold for a while

561
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,760
hey i'm just asking for a friend right

562
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:21,600
and i'm here to give you all something

563
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:23,039
to think about

564
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:25,600
and before you answer any of these

565
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,360
thoughts

566
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:29,919
you gotta play van halen's fair warning

567
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:30,720
while you

568
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:34,159
ponder seriously

569
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:38,240
works for me this is fade to black i

570
00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:41,600
am your host jimmy church tonight

571
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,720
right here richard dodie

572
00:28:47,909 --> 00:28:46,320
richard joins us for the first time

573
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:47,919
we're calling this show tonight

574
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:51,120
ufo spy games tomorrow night sheree and

575
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,640
tony rathman are here we're going to be

576
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:54,240
talking about ghost hunting

577
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:56,480
that's tomorrow night thursday night is

578
00:29:01,269 --> 00:28:58,559
another fader night

579
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,279
with open lines all night long i'm yours

580
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,960
timmy church follow me on twitter at j

581
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:04,080
church radio

582
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:09,440
email is jimmy at jimmyturgeradio.com

583
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:11,200
on the game changer network that's what

584
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:12,559
we do around here

585
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:13,919
i'll be right back after this short

586
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:26,720
break with richard dodie stay with us

587
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,320
[Music]

588
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:38,399
this is nicole church daughter of you

589
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know who and you're listening

590
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to fade to black on jimmychurchradio.com

591
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you're listening to jimmy church fade to

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fade to black will now pause for alien

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hi folks it's trembling times and fear

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656
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is to stockpile emergency food water

663
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664
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669
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in fact they're the only source my

670
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family trusts for our preparedness plan

671
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provide two thousand calories a day

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saving 20 helps too doesn't it

676
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677
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so go to preparedwithjimmy.com and get

678
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679
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that's preparedwithjimmy.com there's no

680
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time to lose

681
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do it now

682
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fade to black is not

683
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your father's radio show on the game

684
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changer

685
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:41,039
radio network and kgra

686
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:45,120
the planet hi this is rob reiner from

687
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:45,600
anvil

688
00:34:11,109 --> 00:33:53,190
chris what up this jimmychurchradio.com

689
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,669
all right welcome back fade to black i'm

690
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:15,280
your host jimmy church

691
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:16,960
on the game changer network you can

692
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:18,399
follow me on twitter

693
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:21,760
right now at j church radio hashtag f2b

694
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:26,240
is the sandbox on twitter hashtag f2bq

695
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,720
is fade to black questions any

696
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:30,800
any questions for myself or richard

697
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:32,240
dodie tonight you can post it right

698
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:34,000
there i will see it in real time here in

699
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:34,399
the

700
00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:38,320
studio tomorrow night sheree and tony

701
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,919
rathman are here we're talking ghost

702
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:41,679
hunting

703
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:43,200
thursday nights another fader night with

704
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,599
open lines all night long friday i will

705
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:46,720
be hosting

706
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,000
the conscious life expo uh friday

707
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:52,960
saturday and sunday and so you want to

708
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go over to consciouslifeexpo.com

709
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:57,040
and get your tickets and schedule and

710
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:58,880
info and everything that you need

711
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:01,520
is right there and we've got a very busy

712
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,119
week and then of course

713
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:05,520
uh next monday we kick off another week

714
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:06,480
of live

715
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:09,200
talk radio all right tonight it's

716
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:10,240
richard doty

717
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,400
richard was born in new york state but

718
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:14,160
grew up in a military family and then

719
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:15,680
served his country in the united states

720
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:16,640
air force

721
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:20,560
office of special investigation after

722
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:22,720
attending intelligence courses

723
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,240
taught by afois the defense intelligence

724
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:28,480
agency and the central intelligence

725
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,440
agency

726
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:31,680
he served at kirkland air force base as

727
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:33,520
a counterintelligence officer

728
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:35,920
richard saw duty at the nevada test site

729
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:37,680
the air force test center

730
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:40,800
detachment 3 groom lake nevada

731
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:43,119
richard investigated the coyote canyon

732
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:44,079
canyon ufo

733
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,000
sighting on kirkland air force base and

734
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,000
the paul benowitz incident

735
00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:50,720
he was also assigned to afosi european

736
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:53,119
headquarters wiesbaden germany

737
00:35:57,829 --> 00:35:56,000
as a counter espionage agent after

738
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:57,839
leaving the afosi he was

739
00:36:02,069 --> 00:36:00,240
assigned to an air force reserve unit

740
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:02,079
and later was employed by the state of

741
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,280
new mexico

742
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:05,520
and he also worked for the institute for

743
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:08,000
advanced studies which was directed by

744
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:08,480
dr

745
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:11,839
hal put off today richard is retired and

746
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:13,680
employed as a consultant and i would

747
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,680
like to welcome back to fade to black

748
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:17,680
richard doty richard good evening how

749
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:19,280
are you

750
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,119
and uh thank you for asking normally uh

751
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:27,200
richard at this point of the show

752
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:29,599
um we give you the first time guest

753
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,880
disclaimer

754
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,880
and i thought about this well you know

755
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:34,400
technically

756
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:36,640
we spent 90 minutes on the phone a few

757
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:37,920
years ago

758
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:41,040
so i thought no he's not a first-time

759
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:42,560
guest that's not the way to handle it

760
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:42,960
you're

761
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:46,320
go

762
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:48,320
and uh welcome thank you yeah welcome

763
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:49,520
back welcome back

764
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:53,119
um i actually want to start here now

765
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:56,800
there's no question richard um you know

766
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:59,599
uh about the past and and the ufo

767
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:00,560
community and

768
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:04,160
and how uh some may view you

769
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:07,280
um and so to start this show i actually

770
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:10,480
want to uh make sure that we're on the

771
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:11,200
same

772
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:14,480
footing here um are you

773
00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:17,520
bound by any security oaths

774
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:20,960
or any ndas that would prevent you from

775
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:35,030
unless

776
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,390
or um security budgets man you know just

777
00:37:42,270 --> 00:37:40,400
by you saying that it makes me wanna the

778
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:42,280
question is okay what are those projects

779
00:37:48,630 --> 00:37:46,240
[Laughter]

780
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,640
all right okay all right so we'll we'll

781
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:50,480
let it go for now um

782
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:53,760
but uh yeah go ahead

783
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:55,280
well believe it or not there are still

784
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,119
some uh

785
00:38:00,310 --> 00:37:59,440
projects in operations that i was

786
00:38:01,990 --> 00:38:00,320
involved with

787
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:02,000
years ago that are still classified

788
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:04,160
they're still ongoing so

789
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,200
uh most of them most of them deals with

790
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:10,320
uh counter espionage uh not necessarily

791
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:11,200
ufos

792
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:14,079
right but i only know of one ufo

793
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:15,280
incident

794
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:18,000
that i was involved with uh involving

795
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:18,800
the russians

796
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:20,800
that is still classified that i probably

797
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,640
couldn't talk about and and

798
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:24,880
that's it as far as ufos okay what

799
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,440
incident was that

800
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:29,680
it was an incident inside the soviet

801
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:31,680
union back in the 1980s

802
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:35,839
okay and there are there are factors

803
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:38,160
involved in that in a case that are

804
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:38,960
still

805
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,400
those

806
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:44,880
yes i can talk about the fact that it

807
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:46,800
that there's something happened

808
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,079
inside uh the soviet union in fact

809
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:52,320
it's it's been on the internet uh some

810
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:53,119
years ago

811
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:56,079
but uh the details of it it's kind of

812
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:57,599
sticky because

813
00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:00,720
uh talking about it would bring up the

814
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:01,680
possibility

815
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:04,960
of disclosing some source methods or

816
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:07,119
techniques used to gather the

817
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:08,400
intelligence that we did

818
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:10,160
inside the soviet union oh that's

819
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:12,880
interesting though uh was it uh

820
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:16,079
was it uh a crash or

821
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:18,800
or was it just a landing or or just a

822
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:24,310
no no it was a uh a landing and a

823
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:25,599
confrontation

824
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,040
between uh et's and a a

825
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,160
soviet uh uh military

826
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:34,640
patrol and this is back in the 80s right

827
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:35,280
right right

828
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:38,960
right and so uh late 70s 80s

829
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:43,520
so the soviet union and um there was uh

830
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:47,119
some um some some people

831
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:50,160
some soviet et's that were

832
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:53,359
um i'm not sure if they were they

833
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,839
they were killed or if they were just

834
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:56,400
wounded but

835
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:58,079
there was a confrontation between the

836
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:00,240
et's and the soviet

837
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:03,760
uh soldiers now um this is a

838
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:06,960
a a very interesting thing to

839
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:12,560
say was this um was this verified

840
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:16,160
i mean oh yeah yeah yeah

841
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:19,440
it was definitely verified uh we

842
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:23,280
we were able to capture uh

843
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:26,400
uh communications and we had

844
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:32,550
we had somebody within the government

845
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:33,520
that was our

846
00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:37,280
our asset or spy that was that reported

847
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:40,400
this back to us with with evidence

848
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:43,680
uh of of the incident wow

849
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:46,640
um let me ask you this we can move on

850
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,680
off of this uh

851
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:50,160
because the questions that i need to ask

852
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,200
uh

853
00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:53,040
you know won't be answered or it can't

854
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:54,720
be answered

855
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:03,990
i entered the air force in 1968

856
00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:07,520
i was in the air force from 68 to 72

857
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:09,440
i got out went to college and then i

858
00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:10,880
went back to work for

859
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:15,760
for afosi uh in 1978.

860
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:19,040
and you left in uh

861
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:22,160
80 what 88 88

862
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:25,200
okay october uh

863
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:29,359
of 88 1988. now uh going back

864
00:41:35,349 --> 00:41:32,480
i want to start uh with um

865
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:35,359
paul benowitz and there's a lot of

866
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:36,240
reasons

867
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:38,880
uh to actually go here because uh

868
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,359
there's

869
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:41,200
stuff historically that i've always

870
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:43,040
wanted to ask you over the years and

871
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:44,640
and i know i said that to you last time

872
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:46,240
two three years ago and

873
00:41:49,349 --> 00:41:48,640
i i barely remember that conversation

874
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:49,359
but

875
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:52,720
um i want to go back uh to

876
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,240
paul benowitz because when

877
00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:59,520
when i originally had read about the

878
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:00,160
case

879
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:03,200
and and how it went down it was a

880
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:04,880
situation richard where i thought to

881
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:05,440
myself

882
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:08,000
if i ever get a chance you know i've got

883
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:09,760
a list of questions here

884
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:12,960
um and so the the first the first

885
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:13,839
question

886
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:17,520
is is this

887
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:20,800
did did paul

888
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:24,160
make contact with e.t

889
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:34,230
yes he did he actually did um

890
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:37,829
it was a complicated case we it started

891
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:40,240
out with paul reported

892
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:43,359
some unusual sightings over kirtland air

893
00:42:47,349 --> 00:42:44,079
force base

894
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:47,359
and and particularly over manzano

895
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:50,000
uh storage area and manzano at that time

896
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:50,640
back in the

897
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:54,160
late 70s manzano was a nuclear weapon

898
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:55,599
storage area on the base

899
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:57,839
and was classified the air force

900
00:43:02,470 --> 00:42:58,960
wouldn't admit

901
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:02,480
there was a nuclear weapon stored there

902
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:04,640
and along with the fact that the weapons

903
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:07,200
were stored there at manzano

904
00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:10,640
there was a number of safeguards around

905
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:14,560
the the storage area both electronic

906
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:17,599
and then obviously physical security

907
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:21,119
with military police and security guards

908
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,319
and and paul had gathered information

909
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:26,400
gathered some intelligence i mean uh

910
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:27,440
electronic

911
00:43:32,150 --> 00:43:30,640
signals coming from there and he also

912
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:32,160
photographed

913
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:35,280
uh objects flying over the base

914
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:38,240
and so he's being being a patriotic

915
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:40,319
american and paul was a veteran in the

916
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:41,839
united states navy

917
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,839
paul brought it to the attention of the

918
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,359
base uh

919
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:47,599
based security officer and that's how i

920
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:49,520
got involved in it

921
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:52,560
now um at that time

922
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:56,400
uh were you specifically dealing with

923
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:04,150
uh yes i had been briefed into the

924
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,560
program uh in the latter part 1978

925
00:44:11,990 --> 00:44:10,640
after an incident occurred on the base

926
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:12,000
where

927
00:44:15,870 --> 00:44:14,319
i investigated but i wasn't briefed into

928
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,880
the program i didn't have access to the

929
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:17,280
classification

930
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:21,280
that i needed and so my boss

931
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:22,560
told me well you're going to have to get

932
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:25,359
cleared into this particular

933
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:27,599
program so then i i got cleared into it

934
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:28,960
and that's when i

935
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:31,599
learned how and and when the united

936
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:33,760
states government became involved

937
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,680
with the investigation of ufos in

938
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:37,200
contacts with ets

939
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:41,119
going back to the 1947 roswell crash

940
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:43,359
and so i was briefed into the program i

941
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:44,640
investigated

942
00:44:48,309 --> 00:44:46,400
that particular incident which happened

943
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:48,319
over coyote canyon

944
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,240
and then shortly after that the paul

945
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:52,480
bennowitz case occurred

946
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:55,680
so uh paul bennowitz's name

947
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:59,040
pops up uh you're it was this something

948
00:45:03,349 --> 00:45:00,240
that was assigned

949
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:03,359
to you uh did you have a commanding

950
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:05,440
officer that got this first and then

951
00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:09,280
handed you uh uh paul's information

952
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:12,560
how how did that uh a chain of command

953
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:16,240
go down well paul

954
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:20,400
first uh contacted major ernie edwards

955
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,680
and and major edwards was the

956
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,839
chief of social security for manzano

957
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:27,599
base

958
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,280
and uh then he he gathered the

959
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:33,839
information from paul benowitz uh

960
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,800
uh actually met with him at the at the

961
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:38,880
base security office

962
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,119
and then shortly after that uh major

963
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:42,880
edwards contacted me because i was a

964
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:45,599
counterintelligence officer for the base

965
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:48,000
and so major edwards contacted me and by

966
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:48,800
phone he said

967
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:51,520
he told me uh he asked me to come to his

968
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:53,440
office he said i got something very very

969
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:54,640
important that i had

970
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:56,720
have to to talk to you about and i can't

971
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,319
do it over the phone

972
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:00,880
and i said okay yeah major i'll i mean i

973
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:01,359
knew him

974
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:04,800
i knew major edwards so i i drove to his

975
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:07,119
his office we sat down with a secure

976
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,000
room and he

977
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:10,560
he told me what uh what paul had told

978
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:11,920
him about

979
00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:15,200
uh what he had gathered over the base

980
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:18,640
now at this point did you know how long

981
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:26,470
uh only what ernie edwards told me uh

982
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:28,960
major edwards told me what paul had told

983
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:29,760
him

984
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,480
and actually uh major edwards had used

985
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:34,079
the tape recorder a small

986
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:36,960
pocket tape recorder and recorded most

987
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,599
of the

988
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,599
conversation he didn't he didn't record

989
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:41,200
the first part of it but

990
00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:43,839
but the the last 40 you know eight

991
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,400
minutes or whatever it was he recorded

992
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:48,720
and then i listened to that so then i

993
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,680
knew paul

994
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:51,920
what the background was of paul how long

995
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:53,839
he had been doing this

996
00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:55,839
so i thought it was something that we

997
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,160
needed to investigate

998
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,240
and i so i took that information and

999
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:02,079
answered your your other question i took

1000
00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:03,280
that information

1001
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:05,920
and approached my supervisor and my

1002
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:08,480
supervisor wasn't military my supervisor

1003
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:09,200
was a

1004
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:13,599
a gs14 a gm 14 which is a civilian

1005
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:15,520
government employee

1006
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:18,640
yeah yeah you're an employee of osi uh

1007
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:21,760
and i guess i can say now he actually

1008
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:23,680
worked for dia defense intelligence

1009
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:24,559
agency

1010
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:27,119
but anyway i went to him and i i sat

1011
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:27,920
down and

1012
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:31,040
and had him listen to the tape

1013
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:33,119
and uh and i said i think we should

1014
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:34,800
investigate this and he said okay

1015
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,319
i agree so what i did was i

1016
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:41,280
i completed what what osi calls a form

1017
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:41,680
one

1018
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:45,440
it's a it's a complaint form uh

1019
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:49,359
a chronological brief description of

1020
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:52,559
of the incident and then we send that up

1021
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,920
to headquarters and then there's

1022
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:56,000
different ways to sending it up

1023
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:58,880
um because this was a cl i considered it

1024
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:00,319
classified

1025
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:03,280
uh and it was an urgent matter i set it

1026
00:48:06,549 --> 00:48:04,079
up

1027
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,559
in a immediate it's called immediate

1028
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:08,640
message to headquarters

1029
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,359
and and this was about two about two

1030
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:13,599
o'clock in the afternoon

1031
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:16,800
and um by 4 30

1032
00:48:19,829 --> 00:48:18,720
that afternoon before i got off i got up

1033
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:19,839
at

1034
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:23,520
uh headquarters had sent a message back

1035
00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:26,559
saying uh by all means

1036
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:28,640
you you have permission to investigate

1037
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:29,680
it and

1038
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:32,480
and they told us uh in the message that

1039
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:34,880
came down from our our bosses and

1040
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:37,760
and at um in the forestall building it

1041
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,160
had

1042
00:48:42,390 --> 00:48:41,040
osi headquarters back then was in a uh

1043
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:42,400
forestall building in downtown

1044
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:43,760
washington

1045
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:47,040
and um the the person had

1046
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:49,920
that had gotten this was a colonel

1047
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,559
richard

1048
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:52,240
law he was a chief of

1049
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:55,200
counterintelligence for the for osi

1050
00:49:01,589 --> 00:48:58,319
um he said uh

1051
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:05,109
his boss which uh included the uh

1052
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:06,960
the inspector general the united states

1053
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:09,040
air force because osi worked for

1054
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:10,640
the inspector general they didn't work

1055
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,720
for any base commanders or anything they

1056
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:14,960
they were an independent agency

1057
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:17,839
and um and then he said at the at the

1058
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:18,559
end

1059
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:20,559
of the message you need to call me on a

1060
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:24,240
ky3 which is a secure phone system

1061
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:26,000
so then then i called him and briefed

1062
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:28,559
him over the phone and then he

1063
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:30,800
was very concerned and said you need to

1064
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:31,920
investigate it

1065
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:34,559
now was the investigated initiated

1066
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:35,680
because this is

1067
00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:39,359
a nuclear weapons base or was this being

1068
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:41,040
investigated because

1069
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:44,079
uh you uh knew

1070
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:46,960
that he had possibly made contact with

1071
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:47,839
uh

1072
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,760
something off world no no no i hadn't

1073
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:53,520
it didn't at that point it didn't have

1074
00:49:58,390 --> 00:49:55,280
anything to do with ufos

1075
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:58,400
it had to do with a security of the

1076
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:00,000
nuclear weapon storage area

1077
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:03,440
right and i felt that paul had somehow

1078
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:07,040
tapped into the security systems

1079
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:10,400
for the nuclear weapon storage area and

1080
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:14,000
that uh he also had taken photographs

1081
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:14,800
that he

1082
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,920
spoke to on the tape and i knew at the

1083
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:19,200
time

1084
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:22,240
uh the air force was testing drones

1085
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:25,280
and this was in the early late 70s

1086
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:26,960
and the air force had a highly

1087
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:28,720
classified back then it was highly

1088
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:29,599
classified

1089
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:33,119
program on on drones um

1090
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:36,640
and and how the drones worked uh back

1091
00:50:39,910 --> 00:50:36,960
then

1092
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:39,920
is they would launch a plane it would be

1093
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:40,160
a

1094
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:43,200
uh ec

1095
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:46,319
or an rc uh

1096
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:49,680
135 it was like a 707

1097
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:53,119
basically a 707 but for the air force

1098
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:56,160
they designated at the 135 and then from

1099
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,880
that

1100
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:58,559
the platform they would launch these

1101
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,480
drones and the drones would be

1102
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:02,400
controlled by that aircraft

1103
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,319
and that those drones would be flying

1104
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,480
all around near that aircraft

1105
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:09,200
so if you were a lay person and you were

1106
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:10,640
looking up in the air

1107
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:13,440
south of the base and you saw this

1108
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:15,760
strange thing flying around

1109
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:18,480
a a plane you know your first thought

1110
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:18,800
would

1111
00:51:24,630 --> 00:51:22,000
be my god that's a ufo and that's what

1112
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:24,640
paul thought it was and he said these

1113
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:26,400
ufos are flying all around

1114
00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:27,839
the base and they're they're plumbing

1115
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:30,640
real close to air force aircrafts

1116
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,760
and he said this on the tape so that's

1117
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:35,760
what our concern was

1118
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:37,839
and we also had another concern was that

1119
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:39,520
on the base we had a

1120
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:42,960
a national security agency facility

1121
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:46,319
and that facility uh

1122
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:49,359
it was classified the fact that it was

1123
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:51,280
even on the base was classified

1124
00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:53,920
and everything they did was classified

1125
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:56,079
but they had a uh

1126
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:58,640
what they call a star range where they

1127
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:00,319
had a facility that

1128
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:03,440
could shoot lasers into the air

1129
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:06,240
and this isn't classified anymore and

1130
00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:08,160
what they did on the base was they would

1131
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:09,920
fire these

1132
00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:12,160
this laser a chemical laser up in the

1133
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:13,040
air

1134
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:15,119
when a soviet satellite was passing

1135
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:16,480
overhead

1136
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:18,559
and they would shoot the laser into the

1137
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,559
lens of the soviet satellite and

1138
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:22,160
basically blind it

1139
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:24,000
so the soviets couldn't see what was on

1140
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:25,920
the ground now they had

1141
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:28,640
they had these things not just there at

1142
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:30,079
kirtland but they had them

1143
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:33,200
for instance out at area 51 had one and

1144
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:33,920
other bases

1145
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:36,079
edwards air force base had one and so

1146
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:37,119
forth some other

1147
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:40,400
classified facilities and and this

1148
00:52:43,829 --> 00:52:42,800
i knew this was occur i knew about this

1149
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:43,839
operation

1150
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:46,960
so all these things accumulated in my

1151
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:49,040
mind and that's when i thought well

1152
00:52:52,710 --> 00:52:50,559
we have to investigate and find out

1153
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:52,720
number one how he was doing it

1154
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:55,280
and what he was collecting so at that

1155
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:56,240
point

1156
00:53:03,990 --> 00:52:59,680
the ufo subject didn't didn't come up

1157
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,790
was it the next day when did you first

1158
00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:09,119
make contact

1159
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:11,520
excuse me yeah the next day i called i

1160
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:13,280
think it was sometime in the morning

1161
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,760
i knew paul i did i did some checks i

1162
00:53:20,069 --> 00:53:17,280
stayed overtime

1163
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:20,079
uh and and did some checks on on paul

1164
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:21,200
benowitz

1165
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,359
and the first thing i did was i did what

1166
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:25,680
we call a dci check on him

1167
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:28,960
a defense uh criminal indices checked

1168
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,720
to see if his name was in the the

1169
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:32,160
defense uh

1170
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:35,680
computer system and lo and behold it was

1171
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:37,920
and i found out that paul had a security

1172
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:39,040
clearance

1173
00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:40,880
and that paul ran a business off the

1174
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:42,160
base called fine

1175
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:44,640
thunder scientific laboratories he had a

1176
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:46,960
department of defense security clearance

1177
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:50,319
because he made uh parts for submarines

1178
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:53,040
classified parts so that helped me out a

1179
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:53,599
bit

1180
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:56,240
knowing that he had a security clearance

1181
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:58,319
then i called paul the next day and

1182
00:54:04,230 --> 00:54:01,680
and identified myself and said

1183
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:04,240
i'd like to come out and speak with you

1184
00:54:07,589 --> 00:54:06,000
regarding the information you provided

1185
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:07,599
with major edwards

1186
00:54:11,990 --> 00:54:09,520
he said sure sure sure come on out just

1187
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:12,000
come out and so i did i went out and

1188
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:15,520
sat down and spoke with him and uh what

1189
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:18,960
what happened next and the um the other

1190
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:19,440
part

1191
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:23,760
um about this is he was taking pictures

1192
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:26,240
and things when you got to the house did

1193
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:27,680
you see any evidence

1194
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:32,079
of this well i went to his shop

1195
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:33,920
i went to his business i didn't go to

1196
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:35,920
his house his office

1197
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:38,559
his bed his business was just outside

1198
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,280
the base

1199
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:41,280
of the air force base i mean just

1200
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:42,640
outside the gate

1201
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:43,839
and so i went out there and talked to

1202
00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:45,760
him there and he uh

1203
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:49,520
he he just opened up and he said

1204
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:52,640
yeah i've been doing this for for many

1205
00:54:58,549 --> 00:54:55,040
years i've been investigating

1206
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:58,559
he brought up the subject of ufo he said

1207
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:01,920
i'm a member of uh app pro i'm a member

1208
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:02,880
of mufon

1209
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:05,440
this is this is i mean i identified

1210
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:06,720
myself

1211
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:09,440
i sat down and told him gave him a

1212
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:11,839
preamble of why i was there

1213
00:55:20,309 --> 00:55:15,280
and he immediately started

1214
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:20,319
by saying i am very interested in ufos i

1215
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:22,000
am a member of app pro i've been a

1216
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,000
member of app pro for years

1217
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:26,960
i remember mufon i was a field

1218
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:28,960
investigator for ufos

1219
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:31,680
and i was kind of bewildered of why he

1220
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:33,200
was telling me this stuff

1221
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:36,799
i mean there was no connection

1222
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:39,680
with me at that point with what he said

1223
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:40,640
and saw

1224
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:43,760
in ufos so he he

1225
00:55:48,150 --> 00:55:46,160
rambled on for you know probably 15 or

1226
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:48,160
20 minutes and i said well

1227
00:55:54,789 --> 00:55:51,440
mr benowitz why did you bring up ufos

1228
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:54,799
he said because what i saw out there

1229
00:56:01,990 --> 00:55:58,640
was a ufo with many ufos and what i

1230
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:02,000
what information i gathered by my

1231
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:06,960
uh equipment pertains to alien signals

1232
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:09,599
so i said well what what are you talking

1233
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:10,000
about

1234
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:11,520
signals how are you gathering those

1235
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:13,280
signals he said well

1236
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:16,720
i live in four hills and and now

1237
00:56:20,069 --> 00:56:18,720
a little background of four hills four

1238
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:20,079
hills

1239
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:23,440
is uh in the north east

1240
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:26,160
or a southeast section of albuquerque

1241
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:26,799
and that

1242
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:29,520
housing complex very rich housing area i

1243
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:30,559
mean

1244
00:56:39,030 --> 00:56:36,319
very uh expensive houses in that area

1245
00:56:40,069 --> 00:56:39,040
he lives right next to the base

1246
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:40,079
perimeter

1247
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,079
and he doesn't live as more than the

1248
00:56:48,309 --> 00:56:44,720
stone throw away from montano

1249
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:48,319
his house his backyard

1250
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,960
connects to the base perimeter so he

1251
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:52,400
explained that to me

1252
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:55,839
and he said well i'm a physicist i run

1253
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:57,200
thunder scientific and he gave me a

1254
00:57:00,549 --> 00:56:58,960
brief description of what

1255
00:57:02,309 --> 00:57:00,559
thunder scientific did and what he made

1256
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:02,319
for the the government and i said

1257
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:03,599
well yeah i did a little background on

1258
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:04,720
you and i realized that you have a

1259
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:06,079
security clearance and you

1260
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:08,880
you make uh censors for submarines he

1261
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:09,599
said yeah and

1262
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:12,880
and so i took these pictures and i'm

1263
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:14,480
going to show them to you so

1264
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:17,599
i said okay he said but first of all and

1265
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:19,200
he told me he had his own photo app so

1266
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:20,079
he did his own

1267
00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:24,240
work he said but first of all i'm scared

1268
00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:28,000
that these ufos are going to attack

1269
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:31,040
the base so

1270
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:34,240
then he started talking uh about uh

1271
00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:37,119
aliens and and how dangerous they were

1272
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:38,799
he knows about him

1273
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:41,359
he's had uh contacts with people that

1274
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:42,000
had con

1275
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:44,400
that that were abducted and so forth and

1276
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,359
so on

1277
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:47,680
i said well okay i said but you know

1278
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:49,760
what i'm concerned with

1279
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:52,000
is what if what kind of equipment are

1280
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:53,040
you using

1281
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:55,920
to collect these signals he said well i

1282
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:57,599
can take you out to my house

1283
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:59,760
and and show you everything i don't have

1284
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:00,880
anything to hide

1285
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:03,200
i said okay okay all right i i would

1286
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:04,559
like that

1287
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:05,760
in the meantime he brought these

1288
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:09,119
pictures out and he laid him out in this

1289
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,359
desk and he said these are the one

1290
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:13,680
pictures i've taken over the last

1291
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:16,799
you know nine months or whatever it was

1292
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:19,200
and every picture i saw there i didn't

1293
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:20,319
make any comments

1294
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:21,839
about the pictures i said well they're

1295
00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:24,640
interesting we're of drones

1296
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:27,520
he took pictures of drones flying around

1297
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:28,240
the base or

1298
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:33,040
i said so what do you think they are he

1299
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:35,040
said i i think they're your votes

1300
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:37,920
there there are ufos he got really i

1301
00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:39,599
mean really excited he said those

1302
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:42,240
are ufos look how close they're flying

1303
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:43,359
to those

1304
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:46,400
aircrafts military aircraft i said wow

1305
00:58:50,470 --> 00:58:46,960
yeah

1306
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:50,480
i can understand so i just said okay uh

1307
00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:52,799
so when can we go out and look at your

1308
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:54,400
equipment you said well

1309
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:57,200
what about tomorrow i said okay we make

1310
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,640
arrangements tomorrow he says

1311
00:59:01,750 --> 00:59:00,480
well i have to work in the daytime can

1312
00:59:04,789 --> 00:59:01,760
you come out tomorrow

1313
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:04,799
evening i said sure sure we can do that

1314
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:07,599
and so i made an arrangement uh to go

1315
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:07,920
out

1316
00:59:13,349 --> 00:59:11,119
and and look at his equipment now uh i

1317
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:13,359
need to take a break right here so

1318
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:16,400
this is a this is a good spot to do that

1319
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:20,319
and so this is okay so uh first day

1320
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:23,040
you you hear about paul second day you

1321
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:24,400
visit him

1322
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:27,200
uh not at his home but all of this stuff

1323
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:28,640
was discussed

1324
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:31,599
third day you guys uh are planning on

1325
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:32,000
meeting

1326
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:36,000
at his house in the evening right

1327
00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:38,000
that's correct okay let's uh take our

1328
00:59:42,150 --> 00:59:39,839
break right here this is fade to block

1329
00:59:43,109 --> 00:59:42,160
our guest tonight richard dodie this is

1330
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:43,119
fade to black i

1331
00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:45,119
am your host jimmy church it's going to

1332
00:59:48,309 --> 00:59:46,799
be a great conversation tonight sit

1333
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:48,319
right there we'll be right back after

1334
00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:49,520
this short break

1335
01:00:00,820 --> 00:59:52,799
on the game changer network and kgra

1336
01:00:12,829 --> 01:00:00,830
the planet stay with us

1337
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:14,180
so

1338
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:19,839
[Music]

1339
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:22,160
this is faded black with jimmy church on

1340
01:00:29,270 --> 01:00:24,319
the game changer radio network

1341
01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:29,280
and kgra the global radio alliance

1342
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:31,839
this is kgra digital broadcasting

1343
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:32,880
station

1344
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:37,280
salt lake city utah van buren arkansas

1345
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,280
hello my name is billy carson and i'm a

1346
01:00:42,549 --> 01:00:40,880
best-selling author and the founder of

1347
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:42,559
forbidden knowledge dot tv

1348
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together with my team we have built a

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forbidden knowledge dot tv again visit

1376
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1377
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:35,839
today listen

1378
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:38,799
i know and you know that you've always

1379
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,799
wanted your first crystal skull

1380
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:43,040
or maybe you're a collector just like me

1381
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:45,200
but you just don't know where to go to

1382
01:01:50,190 --> 01:01:46,960
find the real thing

1383
01:01:51,670 --> 01:01:50,200
then i met carolyn ford over at

1384
01:01:54,069 --> 01:01:51,680
einsteinthecrystalskull.com

1385
01:01:56,069 --> 01:01:54,079
carolyn is the guardian of einstein one

1386
01:01:57,589 --> 01:01:56,079
of the most respected ancient crystal

1387
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:57,599
skulls in the world

1388
01:02:01,510 --> 01:01:59,280
all of her unique skulls have been

1389
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:01,520
imprinted sitting with einstein in his

1390
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:03,440
sacred lodge and are carved from the

1391
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finest gemstone and materials

1392
01:02:10,470 --> 01:02:07,920
imprinting is the process of receiving

1393
01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:10,480
the ancient wisdom from the master skull

1394
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:10,799
or

1395
01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:13,839
master computer einstein the ancient

1396
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:16,240
crystal skull to see carolyn's current

1397
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collection of crystal skulls just visit

1398
01:02:22,309 --> 01:02:20,520
her store at

1399
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:22,319
einsteinthecrystalskull.com click on the

1400
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1406
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skull is easy

1407
01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:38,119
just visit einstein the crystal

1408
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:43,349
when you take the beans from central

1409
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1410
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1411
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1412
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1421
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1423
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1425
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1426
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1427
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:26,799
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1428
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1429
01:03:31,430 --> 01:03:29,400
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1430
01:03:31,829 --> 01:03:31,440
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1431
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:31,839
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1432
01:03:42,829 --> 01:03:35,890
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1433
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todaychurchradio.com

1434
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:45,680
this is ray sobbs here repping the

1435
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:47,599
planet and you're listening to my good

1436
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:48,160
friend

1437
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:51,039
jimmy church fade to black on the game

1438
01:03:56,789 --> 01:03:53,760
changer network and the kgra digital

1439
01:03:59,950 --> 01:03:56,799
broadcast station

1440
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,960
this is toby kebble you're listening to

1441
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:01,119
jimmychurchradio.com

1442
01:04:06,390 --> 01:04:04,160
don't hurt me jimmy i'm only little hey

1443
01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:06,400
i'm adrian grenier and this is ari gold

1444
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,510
hey brothers adrian grenier and i'm ari

1445
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:15,680
gold we're the honey brothers

1446
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,920
and you're listening to jimmy church a

1447
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,440
revolution

1448
01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:21,119
this is jimmy church of fade to black

1449
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:23,119
and you can become an official fate or

1450
01:04:27,470 --> 01:04:24,480
not by just going to

1451
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:27,480
our membership section at

1452
01:04:31,750 --> 01:04:29,680
jimmychurchradio.com

1453
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:31,760
hello this is serena wright taylor from

1454
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:33,200
conscious life expo

1455
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:35,119
and you're listening to fade to black

1456
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:36,240
with jimmy church

1457
01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:38,480
who holds the lucky pony record for the

1458
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:40,000
best astrological chart

1459
01:04:45,910 --> 01:04:44,240
since 1963 true story

1460
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:45,920
this is micah hanks of the grealian

1461
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:47,520
report and you're listening to jimmy

1462
01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:49,039
church on fade to black

1463
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:50,799
across the globe on the game changer

1464
01:05:11,390 --> 01:04:52,720
radio network and the one and only

1465
01:05:16,950 --> 01:05:15,349
[Music]

1466
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:16,960
welcome back fade to black i'm real

1467
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:18,480
jimmy church tonight richard

1468
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:21,760
dodie is here tonight's show it's called

1469
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:23,760
ufo spy games

1470
01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:26,160
tomorrow night tony and sheree rathman

1471
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:27,280
are here

1472
01:05:30,710 --> 01:05:29,200
gonna be talking ghost hunting all night

1473
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:30,720
and looking forward to that thursday

1474
01:05:34,829 --> 01:05:31,520
night of course

1475
01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:34,839
is another fader night with all uh

1476
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:38,000
with with your phone calls

1477
01:05:41,670 --> 01:05:40,079
all night long and uh tonight it's

1478
01:05:42,789 --> 01:05:41,680
richard dodi we're talking about paul

1479
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:42,799
benowitz

1480
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:46,160
and uh so now this is uh

1481
01:05:50,710 --> 01:05:49,599
richard your your third day uh with paul

1482
01:05:53,349 --> 01:05:50,720
but now

1483
01:05:55,029 --> 01:05:53,359
uh you arrive at his house a couple of

1484
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:55,039
things that i wanted to ask you

1485
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:58,160
um at this point uh did was

1486
01:06:02,230 --> 01:06:00,640
were there any indications of paul's

1487
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:02,240
instability

1488
01:06:09,029 --> 01:06:04,799
did or you know how how were you

1489
01:06:15,829 --> 01:06:12,230
paul was a very high strung

1490
01:06:17,829 --> 01:06:15,839
person he smoked probably

1491
01:06:19,750 --> 01:06:17,839
three or four packs of cigarettes a day

1492
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:19,760
and he probably drank

1493
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:24,559
uh two to three quarts of coke coca-cola

1494
01:06:28,390 --> 01:06:26,880
i mean i in fact every time i was ever

1495
01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:28,400
at his office or home he was always

1496
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:30,640
drinking coke and smoking so

1497
01:06:37,349 --> 01:06:33,920
he was high strung and um he

1498
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:37,359
he's a uh out an outspoken person about

1499
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:39,920
the subject that he has knowledge of

1500
01:06:45,750 --> 01:06:42,319
so he considered himself an expert in

1501
01:06:49,349 --> 01:06:45,760
ufos and so he was somewhat of a

1502
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:49,359
tried to be an outspoken person

1503
01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:53,599
regarding history and current

1504
01:06:58,549 --> 01:06:57,280
events regarding ufos so you arrive at

1505
01:07:02,069 --> 01:06:58,559
his house and

1506
01:07:05,349 --> 01:07:02,079
and he's probably pretty excited because

1507
01:07:08,470 --> 01:07:05,359
he's uh assuming at this point

1508
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:08,480
that you are interested in what he is

1509
01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:09,200
observing

1510
01:07:15,829 --> 01:07:12,400
and listening to correct yes

1511
01:07:17,270 --> 01:07:15,839
well going back a little bit uh i'm not

1512
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:17,280
a technical person

1513
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:20,880
uh so i felt that i had to take out

1514
01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:24,000
take somebody with me who knew

1515
01:07:27,510 --> 01:07:26,880
electronics new collection electronic

1516
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:27,520
collections

1517
01:07:31,270 --> 01:07:30,160
devices and so forth so i contacted two

1518
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:31,280
different people one

1519
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:33,440
i can talk about freely his name was

1520
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:34,880
jerry miller

1521
01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:38,400
he was a scientist who worked at the

1522
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:42,400
air force uh weapons laboratory

1523
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:46,160
and he he had knowledge of the subject

1524
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:48,640
uh i mean you know he was also a project

1525
01:07:52,230 --> 01:07:50,559
blue book investigated way but way back

1526
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:52,240
in the early 60s

1527
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:53,920
and then the other person i took with me

1528
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:56,000
was a scientist from sandia national

1529
01:07:59,910 --> 01:07:59,520
laboratories and uh i'm i'm not liberty

1530
01:08:01,589 --> 01:07:59,920
to

1531
01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:01,599
disclose his name so the three of us

1532
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:03,200
went out there

1533
01:08:07,910 --> 01:08:05,680
and uh so what happened next what did

1534
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:07,920
you see

1535
01:08:11,029 --> 01:08:10,400
well we got this house and he lives in a

1536
01:08:15,109 --> 01:08:11,039
very

1537
01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:15,119
uh philanthro area of uh

1538
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:17,920
four hills he had a house was probably

1539
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:20,159
about four thousand square foot

1540
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:22,799
he had a huge balcony on the on the back

1541
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:25,040
side of his house right outside his

1542
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:27,520
bedroom he had a bedroom his master

1543
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:28,080
bedroom

1544
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:31,199
had an office a

1545
01:08:36,149 --> 01:08:34,159
huge huge room i'm not sure if he had

1546
01:08:38,470 --> 01:08:36,159
built this on or something but

1547
01:08:40,789 --> 01:08:38,480
and then uh he had the sliding glass

1548
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:40,799
doors that went on onto the balcony

1549
01:08:44,950 --> 01:08:43,520
we got there he took us upstairs and he

1550
01:08:48,309 --> 01:08:44,960
showed us his cameras

1551
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:48,319
that were were set up outside

1552
01:08:52,870 --> 01:08:51,040
on the patio and he had a number of high

1553
01:08:56,630 --> 01:08:52,880
resolution cameras

1554
01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:56,640
uh he had a a a ae1 that had a

1555
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:59,199
zoom lens on it and he had several other

1556
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:01,920
and he's also had an infrared camera

1557
01:09:11,110 --> 01:09:06,719
and he also had these uh these long um

1558
01:09:14,229 --> 01:09:11,120
uh almost a it looked like a radar scope

1559
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:14,239
a tube several of them on his patio

1560
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:16,640
and they all ran wires ran from there

1561
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:18,960
back into his office

1562
01:09:22,630 --> 01:09:21,759
and then paul went on started explaining

1563
01:09:25,110 --> 01:09:22,640
to us

1564
01:09:26,709 --> 01:09:25,120
the three of us what he had and how he

1565
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:26,719
was using those

1566
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,560
and of course i'm not the technical

1567
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:30,080
person but the two others

1568
01:09:33,669 --> 01:09:31,759
jerry miller and the sandia lab

1569
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:33,679
scientists

1570
01:09:38,470 --> 01:09:36,560
knew what he was doing and and was very

1571
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:38,480
very very concerned

1572
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:40,239
with what he was doing especially the

1573
01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:41,839
sandia labs

1574
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:48,789
electronic countermeasures and and so

1575
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:49,920
forth so

1576
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:52,159
uh well you just listened and watched

1577
01:09:56,550 --> 01:09:54,480
him perform

1578
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:56,560
the camera perform how he did these

1579
01:10:01,189 --> 01:09:57,760
things collect the

1580
01:10:01,510 --> 01:10:01,199
the signals and it took us it took him

1581
01:10:03,189 --> 01:10:01,520
uh

1582
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:03,199
probably about an hour and a half to

1583
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:04,800
explain everything to us and he was

1584
01:10:09,830 --> 01:10:07,120
talking this entire time

1585
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:09,840
he wouldn't let us get word in edgewise

1586
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:11,920
and when he was finished

1587
01:10:16,870 --> 01:10:13,760
then he asked do you have any questions

1588
01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:16,880
and of course the two scientists had

1589
01:10:19,990 --> 01:10:19,520
a plethora of interest of questions for

1590
01:10:22,310 --> 01:10:20,000
him

1591
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:22,320
and he answered every one of them and he

1592
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:23,440
said you know what

1593
01:10:27,030 --> 01:10:25,920
you can take this equipment i don't want

1594
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:27,040
to hide anything

1595
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:30,560
i don't want to be accused of espionage

1596
01:10:37,189 --> 01:10:33,840
so you can you can uh take these

1597
01:10:39,830 --> 01:10:37,199
and and and look at them and see how i

1598
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:39,840
made them and he all these all these all

1599
01:10:43,830 --> 01:10:41,600
this electronic equipment

1600
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:43,840
paul made himself in the laboratory he

1601
01:10:50,229 --> 01:10:46,159
was a he was a uh

1602
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:50,239
a physicist he had uh

1603
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:54,400
years of of uh of training

1604
01:10:58,149 --> 01:10:57,120
and experience and and making electronic

1605
01:11:01,830 --> 01:10:58,159
equipment

1606
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:01,840
and so the scientists said well you know

1607
01:11:05,110 --> 01:11:03,520
we don't know if we can do that and of

1608
01:11:06,790 --> 01:11:05,120
course they looked at me

1609
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,800
and asked me you know do we you know do

1610
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:08,480
we need a warrant or something and i

1611
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:09,440
said

1612
01:11:13,990 --> 01:11:11,760
you know paul if you want to voluntarily

1613
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:14,000
give these things to us

1614
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:15,760
so we can take them back and look at

1615
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:17,600
them uh yes

1616
01:11:22,709 --> 01:11:20,400
uh and we'll promise to bring them back

1617
01:11:26,229 --> 01:11:22,719
to you and so paul said sure go ahead

1618
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:26,239
go ahead so they did they took uh

1619
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:28,000
probably there was i think i don't

1620
01:11:33,830 --> 01:11:30,239
remember exact number of

1621
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:33,840
of of of devices that he had maybe

1622
01:11:37,990 --> 01:11:35,199
seven or eight and i think they took

1623
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:38,000
four four of the most important ones

1624
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:39,600
they considered

1625
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:42,800
and uh we thanked paul uh

1626
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:46,080
and and we left and and we went back to

1627
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:49,199
to the uh our office my office osi

1628
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,320
office

1629
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:52,640
and it was like about eight o'clock or

1630
01:11:57,510 --> 01:11:54,960
nine o'clock at night

1631
01:11:58,550 --> 01:11:57,520
and we sat around and talked about what

1632
01:12:00,070 --> 01:11:58,560
paul had

1633
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:00,080
and they explained to me in layman's

1634
01:12:05,669 --> 01:12:02,640
terms that that what what he was doing

1635
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:05,679
was he was collecting electronic pulses

1636
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:08,800
and signals wow and they were let me let

1637
01:12:14,070 --> 01:12:10,480
me actually uh jump in here

1638
01:12:17,110 --> 01:12:14,080
at at what point after this third uh

1639
01:12:19,510 --> 01:12:17,120
night and now you guys uh are

1640
01:12:22,149 --> 01:12:19,520
understanding more what's going on at

1641
01:12:26,070 --> 01:12:22,159
what point was the decision made

1642
01:12:29,910 --> 01:12:26,080
to put the spin on this uh to ufos

1643
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:29,920
for paul and who made that decision

1644
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:33,360
well it didn't happen uh

1645
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:37,679
that that quick um what i have to do

1646
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:40,719
is at that point was

1647
01:12:45,830 --> 01:12:43,760
write a report and i had to put

1648
01:12:47,110 --> 01:12:45,840
everything that i had seen and

1649
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,120
everything i had done

1650
01:12:50,310 --> 01:12:49,440
including statements from these two

1651
01:12:52,550 --> 01:12:50,320
scientists and

1652
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:52,560
they don't work for osi they were

1653
01:12:56,310 --> 01:12:53,840
assisting us

1654
01:12:57,350 --> 01:12:56,320
and so i had to wait for their reports

1655
01:12:59,350 --> 01:12:57,360
to come in

1656
01:13:02,070 --> 01:12:59,360
and then i did a very very detailed

1657
01:13:05,110 --> 01:13:02,080
report and sent it up to headquarters

1658
01:13:06,229 --> 01:13:05,120
and at when when headquarters read my

1659
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:06,239
report and

1660
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:09,520
and read the uh the scientists uh

1661
01:13:15,750 --> 01:13:12,640
uh evaluation of what paul had then

1662
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:15,760
they mounted a uh a um a

1663
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:17,920
counterintelligence operation against

1664
01:13:22,149 --> 01:13:19,520
against paul benowitz

1665
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:22,159
some call it disinformation but they

1666
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:23,600
figured that

1667
01:13:27,430 --> 01:13:26,560
what what he was collecting was at that

1668
01:13:31,030 --> 01:13:27,440
point

1669
01:13:32,709 --> 01:13:31,040
at that time uh was classified

1670
01:13:34,310 --> 01:13:32,719
information from the base

1671
01:13:36,950 --> 01:13:34,320
and we've certainly taken pictures of

1672
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:36,960
something classified for the drones

1673
01:13:42,229 --> 01:13:40,000
and the electronic pulses and and other

1674
01:13:43,430 --> 01:13:42,239
electronic signals that he was

1675
01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:43,440
collecting

1676
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:46,560
came from the nsa

1677
01:13:53,110 --> 01:13:50,159
and so in turn osi

1678
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:53,120
headquarters had to brief nsa and that

1679
01:13:58,709 --> 01:13:54,880
created a dilemma

1680
01:14:01,510 --> 01:13:58,719
later on but so at that point

1681
01:14:02,790 --> 01:14:01,520
the the powers to be in headquarters

1682
01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:02,800
devised a plan

1683
01:14:06,310 --> 01:14:05,679
and i got on a secure phone when myself

1684
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:06,320
and my

1685
01:14:10,390 --> 01:14:09,600
my supervisor and another agent and we

1686
01:14:13,430 --> 01:14:10,400
listened

1687
01:14:18,070 --> 01:14:13,440
what

1688
01:14:21,350 --> 01:14:18,080
said was

1689
01:14:23,189 --> 01:14:21,360
you need to convince paul that what he

1690
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:23,199
was saying since he already believes in

1691
01:14:26,390 --> 01:14:24,239
ufos

1692
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:26,400
and since he already has all that

1693
01:14:31,189 --> 01:14:28,239
experience and all those years

1694
01:14:32,229 --> 01:14:31,199
working with youfon and apro you need to

1695
01:14:34,229 --> 01:14:32,239
just agree or

1696
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:34,239
convince him that what he took pictures

1697
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:36,000
of and these signals that he was

1698
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:36,960
collecting was

1699
01:14:43,590 --> 01:14:40,239
in fact ufos aliens and so i

1700
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:43,600
you know so so it wasn't my idea it was

1701
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:46,719
headquarters idea so i said okay you

1702
01:14:50,149 --> 01:14:48,239
know that that wouldn't be hard to do

1703
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:50,159
because he already believes in it

1704
01:14:55,110 --> 01:14:53,760
so then when i went on and had other

1705
01:14:57,189 --> 01:14:55,120
contacts with paul

1706
01:14:59,350 --> 01:14:57,199
i would just agree with paul every time

1707
01:15:00,550 --> 01:14:59,360
paul said was this is ufo and i said you

1708
01:15:02,550 --> 01:15:00,560
know what paul

1709
01:15:04,229 --> 01:15:02,560
i think you're right i think what you

1710
01:15:07,990 --> 01:15:04,239
you're getting this from

1711
01:15:08,709 --> 01:15:08,000
et's and so i didn't have to convince

1712
01:15:11,830 --> 01:15:08,719
him much

1713
01:15:13,030 --> 01:15:11,840
i mean he already believed that what he

1714
01:15:16,229 --> 01:15:13,040
was doing

1715
01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:16,239
pertained to ufos and extraterrestrials

1716
01:15:19,669 --> 01:15:18,960
so it wasn't hard for me to convince him

1717
01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:19,679
otherwise

1718
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:24,239
now at what point did you reach out to

1719
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:32,390
well bill moore had

1720
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:40,229
had already had contact with

1721
01:15:47,990 --> 01:15:43,590
paul benowitz he knew paul because

1722
01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:48,000
he had been to a ufo convention

1723
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:50,640
i don't remember when or where but and

1724
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:51,520
met paul

1725
01:15:57,189 --> 01:15:55,440
benowitz there so and at that point and

1726
01:16:00,310 --> 01:15:57,199
that that during that time period

1727
01:16:02,229 --> 01:16:00,320
uh bill moore was a a an asset for the

1728
01:16:06,310 --> 01:16:02,239
u.s intelligence service

1729
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:06,320
and so uh

1730
01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:10,000
bill brought up uh bob inowitz

1731
01:16:14,310 --> 01:16:12,880
because he came to albuquerque uh he did

1732
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:14,320
a radio show

1733
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:17,840
uh promoting his roswell book and

1734
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:20,480
he was gonna go see paul because he had

1735
01:16:24,390 --> 01:16:20,960
been

1736
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:24,400
maintaining contact with him and so

1737
01:16:29,270 --> 01:16:27,280
yeah hold on richard i'm trying to

1738
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:29,280
figure out this timeline here

1739
01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:32,719
so you uh let's back up

1740
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:35,840
the original three days paul called

1741
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:38,239
the air force base spoke with somebody

1742
01:16:41,590 --> 01:16:39,040
that went down

1743
01:16:42,950 --> 01:16:41,600
it got to you second day you visited him

1744
01:16:44,550 --> 01:16:42,960
third day you went out with the

1745
01:16:47,990 --> 01:16:44,560
scientists in sandia

1746
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:48,000
reports are written in and all of that

1747
01:16:55,030 --> 01:16:51,840
at what point did you talk to bill moore

1748
01:16:58,149 --> 01:16:55,040
about paul benowitz i'm confused did

1749
01:17:01,669 --> 01:16:58,159
did you and bill talk about paul

1750
01:17:05,270 --> 01:17:01,679
before paul called the base or

1751
01:17:08,310 --> 01:17:05,280
after paul called the base

1752
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:08,320
no it was it was uh it was

1753
01:17:14,470 --> 01:17:11,360
way after that now let me go back

1754
01:17:17,830 --> 01:17:14,480
and explain that the reports

1755
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:17,840
and the investigation of paul lasted for

1756
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:20,239
a long time

1757
01:17:25,750 --> 01:17:23,040
the report that i did took probably five

1758
01:17:29,189 --> 01:17:25,760
or six or seven days to complete

1759
01:17:30,870 --> 01:17:29,199
and uh maybe even longer i had to send

1760
01:17:33,030 --> 01:17:30,880
that up to headquarters

1761
01:17:34,229 --> 01:17:33,040
uh they had to read it they had to

1762
01:17:36,229 --> 01:17:34,239
coordinate it

1763
01:17:37,510 --> 01:17:36,239
so it was weeks and weeks and weeks it

1764
01:17:39,590 --> 01:17:37,520
wasn't days

1765
01:17:40,870 --> 01:17:39,600
that we were talking about exactly i

1766
01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:40,880
might have still had

1767
01:17:46,310 --> 01:17:44,400
contacts with paul during that time

1768
01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:46,320
period collecting things and talking to

1769
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:46,880
him

1770
01:17:53,189 --> 01:17:50,080
but it was it was weeks and months

1771
01:17:54,310 --> 01:17:53,199
yeah so so okay so now now i'm i'm

1772
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:54,320
understanding okay

1773
01:18:01,189 --> 01:17:57,600
but uh my question is

1774
01:18:01,590 --> 01:18:01,199
did you reach out to bill moore and ask

1775
01:18:05,990 --> 01:18:01,600
him

1776
01:18:11,110 --> 01:18:08,390
paul bill moore came to albuquerque to

1777
01:18:14,229 --> 01:18:11,120
do a radio show on a local radio station

1778
01:18:17,350 --> 01:18:14,239
to promote his book and

1779
01:18:20,790 --> 01:18:17,360
uh i knew of paul

1780
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:20,800
a bill because he was a he was an

1781
01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:23,120
asset was he technically at this point

1782
01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:30,550
he was a unwitting at that point

1783
01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:33,920
he was an unwitting uh asset for us

1784
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:35,760
intelligence because

1785
01:18:39,510 --> 01:18:38,640
bill had contacts inside the soviet

1786
01:18:41,830 --> 01:18:39,520
union

1787
01:18:43,110 --> 01:18:41,840
he had a number of contacts he spoke

1788
01:18:46,390 --> 01:18:43,120
russian and u.s

1789
01:18:49,510 --> 01:18:46,400
yes yeah he spoke he spoke russian

1790
01:18:52,229 --> 01:18:49,520
he uh visited germany and met with

1791
01:18:53,669 --> 01:18:52,239
uh some soviet scientists at a uh some

1792
01:18:55,750 --> 01:18:53,679
kind of a

1793
01:18:57,189 --> 01:18:55,760
symposium i i don't remember exactly

1794
01:19:00,310 --> 01:18:57,199
what what that was but

1795
01:19:03,270 --> 01:19:00,320
uh and and he made friends

1796
01:19:04,070 --> 01:19:03,280
well that we the us intelligence service

1797
01:19:07,430 --> 01:19:04,080
knew this

1798
01:19:09,669 --> 01:19:07,440
because anytime an american has contact

1799
01:19:12,550 --> 01:19:09,679
or maintains contact with somebody in

1800
01:19:14,950 --> 01:19:12,560
the soviet union back in those days

1801
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:14,960
they were known it was known that they

1802
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:16,159
were so

1803
01:19:22,229 --> 01:19:19,520
uh so bill was known to in u.s

1804
01:19:22,550 --> 01:19:22,239
intelligence well i i became friends

1805
01:19:29,430 --> 01:19:22,560
with

1806
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:29,440
before this time i mean i met him uh

1807
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:32,480
at a at an apro

1808
01:19:37,430 --> 01:19:35,520
meeting in uh roswell and i was down

1809
01:19:40,149 --> 01:19:37,440
there collecting intelligence

1810
01:19:40,870 --> 01:19:40,159
in new mexico i met him introduced

1811
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:40,880
myself

1812
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:43,679
and and so i mean it was nothing formal

1813
01:19:47,830 --> 01:19:44,880
but i knew of him

1814
01:19:48,709 --> 01:19:47,840
and then eventually because i had close

1815
01:19:51,750 --> 01:19:48,719
contact

1816
01:19:55,189 --> 01:19:51,760
with him then he became my asset

1817
01:19:58,790 --> 01:19:55,199
okay so uh but but the question is

1818
01:20:02,310 --> 01:19:58,800
um did you after all of this

1819
01:20:04,950 --> 01:20:02,320
did you reach out to bill moore and ask

1820
01:20:06,070 --> 01:20:04,960
him about paul benowitz i mean who

1821
01:20:09,910 --> 01:20:06,080
reached out

1822
01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:09,920
okay yeah yes yes yes the timeline is a

1823
01:20:14,310 --> 01:20:11,440
little bit different than you think

1824
01:20:15,030 --> 01:20:14,320
uh when he when he came to albuquerque

1825
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:15,040
to do the

1826
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:17,360
the talk show i met with i had lunch

1827
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:19,040
with him i think

1828
01:20:22,709 --> 01:20:21,760
maybe it was dinner and at that point i

1829
01:20:26,070 --> 01:20:22,719
said

1830
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:26,080
the name of paul

1831
01:20:31,110 --> 01:20:29,280
benowitz that used to be in the the

1832
01:20:33,350 --> 01:20:31,120
director of a pro and he said oh i know

1833
01:20:36,629 --> 01:20:33,360
paul real well i've known paul for

1834
01:20:39,350 --> 01:20:36,639
for 10 or 12 or 15 years whatever it was

1835
01:20:41,189 --> 01:20:39,360
and i said oh you do know him he said

1836
01:20:45,030 --> 01:20:41,199
well what did paul do

1837
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:45,040
i said well i just want somebody else

1838
01:20:49,189 --> 01:20:46,080
other than somebody

1839
01:20:49,669 --> 01:20:49,199
officially like myself to go talk to

1840
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:49,679
paul

1841
01:20:53,910 --> 01:20:52,320
and see what he tells you about what

1842
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:53,920
he's been doing

1843
01:20:57,430 --> 01:20:55,440
and bill says well what he's doing

1844
01:21:00,390 --> 01:20:57,440
what's he doing and i said well he's

1845
01:21:01,270 --> 01:21:00,400
collecting stuff he'll tell you so just

1846
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:01,280
go talk to

1847
01:21:05,669 --> 01:21:04,560
to paul and see what he'll tell you and

1848
01:21:07,669 --> 01:21:05,679
it's just a

1849
01:21:08,709 --> 01:21:07,679
it's a ploy within intelligence that you

1850
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:08,719
know you you

1851
01:21:15,590 --> 01:21:12,400
as the intelligence officer you

1852
01:21:17,669 --> 01:21:15,600
uh you recruit somebody else and

1853
01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,679
and have that person go and talk to your

1854
01:21:21,910 --> 01:21:19,199
asset or talk to

1855
01:21:22,390 --> 01:21:21,920
uh at target to see what they'll tell

1856
01:21:24,229 --> 01:21:22,400
them

1857
01:21:25,830 --> 01:21:24,239
whether whether paul's telling me the

1858
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:25,840
same thing and so forth

1859
01:21:32,149 --> 01:21:28,960
and it's a truthful a truth uh uh

1860
01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:32,159
a method to determine well so so that's

1861
01:21:36,550 --> 01:21:32,800
how

1862
01:21:38,629 --> 01:21:36,560
bill became involved now um you

1863
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:38,639
uh again i'm just gonna ask you these

1864
01:21:41,910 --> 01:21:39,840
questions because

1865
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:41,920
you were you were at the center of all

1866
01:21:50,950 --> 01:21:42,880
of this

1867
01:21:52,149 --> 01:21:50,960
is that um documents started to get

1868
01:21:56,070 --> 01:21:52,159
created

1869
01:21:59,110 --> 01:21:56,080
uh by you and delivered to paul

1870
01:22:02,229 --> 01:21:59,120
and also from bill moore

1871
01:22:03,510 --> 01:22:02,239
bill moore had documents that he was

1872
01:22:06,790 --> 01:22:03,520
presenting to paul

1873
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:06,800
too as well were those documents created

1874
01:22:10,229 --> 01:22:07,440
by you

1875
01:22:10,870 --> 01:22:10,239
and given to bill moore to give to paul

1876
01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:10,880
was bill

1877
01:22:16,950 --> 01:22:13,440
creating his own documents how did that

1878
01:22:21,030 --> 01:22:16,960
part of the story fit together

1879
01:22:24,149 --> 01:22:21,040
everything that we gave paw

1880
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:24,159
was sanctioned by the intelligence

1881
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:26,000
community i didn't create

1882
01:22:32,470 --> 01:22:29,040
anything uh it was created

1883
01:22:35,510 --> 01:22:32,480
at a special place in washington and uh

1884
01:22:35,910 --> 01:22:35,520
filtered down to me to give either to

1885
01:22:38,470 --> 01:22:35,920
paul

1886
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:38,480
or to have somebody else and and and

1887
01:22:44,310 --> 01:22:40,400
what paul

1888
01:22:47,350 --> 01:22:44,320
uh what bill gave to paul was something

1889
01:22:50,629 --> 01:22:47,360
that was uh a a

1890
01:22:53,270 --> 01:22:50,639
document that pertained to a

1891
01:22:55,030 --> 01:22:53,280
incident that occurred in new mexico up

1892
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:55,040
near dulce

1893
01:22:58,550 --> 01:22:57,600
that paul had had wrote about in an

1894
01:23:01,750 --> 01:22:58,560
april

1895
01:23:06,229 --> 01:23:01,760
article or mufon one of the two

1896
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:06,239
and and so we we gave that to

1897
01:23:10,470 --> 01:23:08,080
bill gate i gave it to bill and then

1898
01:23:13,750 --> 01:23:10,480
bill gave it to paul

1899
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:13,760
the only two documents i mean i know uh

1900
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:15,360
there are a number of people out there

1901
01:23:20,149 --> 01:23:17,600
that are spreading all sorts of baloney

1902
01:23:22,709 --> 01:23:20,159
and bogus information about i gave paul

1903
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:22,719
all these documents and i gave him this

1904
01:23:26,070 --> 01:23:24,800
no there were only two documents that we

1905
01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:26,080
gave all and

1906
01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:29,840
one pertained to dulce and the other

1907
01:23:34,709 --> 01:23:32,960
was a um

1908
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:34,719
a document that was created in

1909
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:36,400
headquarters

1910
01:23:42,709 --> 01:23:39,440
that was a uh

1911
01:23:47,750 --> 01:23:42,719
a a disinformation

1912
01:23:51,030 --> 01:23:47,760
a piece of disinformation about um

1913
01:23:52,870 --> 01:23:51,040
and it was really a uh

1914
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:52,880
just somebody up at headquarters so i

1915
01:23:57,830 --> 01:23:55,440
mean i don't know who but

1916
01:23:59,750 --> 01:23:57,840
uh well i do know who and we have people

1917
01:24:02,950 --> 01:23:59,760
up there that do these things and

1918
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:02,960
and i know with a particular uh agent uh

1919
01:24:11,350 --> 01:24:06,480
that did it but he thought it would be

1920
01:24:15,750 --> 01:24:11,360
a great uh great item for paul to read

1921
01:24:18,790 --> 01:24:15,760
and then uh then i'm i was to evaluate

1922
01:24:19,110 --> 01:24:18,800
how he accepted that document but but

1923
01:24:23,910 --> 01:24:19,120
why

1924
01:24:29,270 --> 01:24:23,920
about

1925
01:24:32,629 --> 01:24:29,280
data on a nuclear facility which is

1926
01:24:34,229 --> 01:24:32,639
uh adjacent to his home why not tell him

1927
01:24:37,750 --> 01:24:34,239
to just stop

1928
01:24:39,510 --> 01:24:37,760
doing that and and not have ufos

1929
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:39,520
involved in this at all i mean

1930
01:24:44,070 --> 01:24:42,400
why not just tell him he can't do that

1931
01:24:47,430 --> 01:24:44,080
he's collecting

1932
01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:47,440
uh uh military stuff and

1933
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:49,760
defense stuff that he doesn't need to be

1934
01:24:52,870 --> 01:24:50,480
doing why

1935
01:24:53,669 --> 01:24:52,880
why pull in the ufo aspect to all of

1936
01:24:59,350 --> 01:24:53,679
this and

1937
01:25:02,470 --> 01:24:59,360
and keep this running on well because

1938
01:25:04,149 --> 01:25:02,480
a number of reasons number one reason is

1939
01:25:06,070 --> 01:25:04,159
we don't think paul would do that we

1940
01:25:07,270 --> 01:25:06,080
wouldn't we i just don't think paul

1941
01:25:11,030 --> 01:25:07,280
would stop

1942
01:25:13,270 --> 01:25:11,040
and that would lead into um

1943
01:25:14,470 --> 01:25:13,280
maybe even having to charging because we

1944
01:25:16,470 --> 01:25:14,480
were federal agents

1945
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:16,480
and we could charge i mean we could

1946
01:25:19,510 --> 01:25:17,679
charge them with a violation

1947
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:19,520
anything within title 18 united states

1948
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:21,920
code or title 50 the united states code

1949
01:25:25,590 --> 01:25:22,800
which dealt

1950
01:25:26,629 --> 01:25:25,600
deals with crimes against the military

1951
01:25:29,350 --> 01:25:26,639
uh

1952
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:29,360
we could enforce and and there was some

1953
01:25:32,950 --> 01:25:30,719
thought about that there was a

1954
01:25:35,350 --> 01:25:32,960
there was some talk about that in fact

1955
01:25:38,790 --> 01:25:35,360
that my boss at kirtland

1956
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:38,800
suggested that he said why don't we just

1957
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:42,000
tell paul knock it off

1958
01:25:48,390 --> 01:25:45,600
forget it and and move on

1959
01:25:50,149 --> 01:25:48,400
well somebody within intelligence says

1960
01:25:52,629 --> 01:25:50,159
no we're not going to do that

1961
01:25:53,669 --> 01:25:52,639
and that was one reason the second

1962
01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:53,679
reason is

1963
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:57,679
paul was so deep into this

1964
01:26:01,590 --> 01:26:00,880
and there was another reason why we were

1965
01:26:04,870 --> 01:26:01,600
doing this

1966
01:26:07,910 --> 01:26:04,880
is because as i

1967
01:26:08,870 --> 01:26:07,920
as i uh gave a presentation at the mega

1968
01:26:11,910 --> 01:26:08,880
con some year

1969
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:11,920
a couple years ago i disclosed this for

1970
01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:13,440
the first time

1971
01:26:16,470 --> 01:26:15,360
there were two other investigations that

1972
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:16,480
were doing

1973
01:26:23,189 --> 01:26:20,000
on on thunder scientific

1974
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:23,199
there was a spy in

1975
01:26:31,910 --> 01:26:26,960
in his lap this guy was providing

1976
01:26:35,350 --> 01:26:31,920
a blueprint of a or a

1977
01:26:38,310 --> 01:26:35,360
schematic of a device that they were

1978
01:26:41,110 --> 01:26:38,320
making there he was giving it to a

1979
01:26:44,870 --> 01:26:41,120
person in mexico city

1980
01:26:47,910 --> 01:26:44,880
so we didn't want to lose access

1981
01:26:52,229 --> 01:26:47,920
to the thunder scientific

1982
01:26:56,229 --> 01:26:52,239
laboratories so that was another reason

1983
01:27:00,229 --> 01:26:56,239
and the third reason is that paul

1984
01:27:03,830 --> 01:27:00,239
was providing us with information

1985
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:03,840
uh that later on

1986
01:27:09,669 --> 01:27:06,960
that we didn't know about and so we

1987
01:27:10,950 --> 01:27:09,679
felt uh headquarters felt that we had to

1988
01:27:14,550 --> 01:27:10,960
maintain

1989
01:27:16,790 --> 01:27:14,560
the contact with paul now do you

1990
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:16,800
feel that and we're gonna be up against

1991
01:27:20,629 --> 01:27:18,400
a break and then we're gonna

1992
01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:20,639
jump onto another subject uh when we

1993
01:27:25,590 --> 01:27:21,760
return

1994
01:27:28,550 --> 01:27:25,600
um do you feel that in hindsight

1995
01:27:30,830 --> 01:27:28,560
uh that this was just approached

1996
01:27:32,229 --> 01:27:30,840
completely wrong paul passed away in in

1997
01:27:34,629 --> 01:27:32,239
2003

1998
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:34,639
uh all of this went down in you know in

1999
01:27:39,669 --> 01:27:36,400
the late 80s

2000
01:27:42,229 --> 01:27:39,679
but he did go in and out of uh mental

2001
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:42,239
hospitals uh two or three times

2002
01:27:45,350 --> 01:27:44,480
uh do you think that you just pushed him

2003
01:27:48,310 --> 01:27:45,360
not you

2004
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:48,320
directly or because of bill moore or

2005
01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:49,920
because of your bosses

2006
01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:52,960
but pushed him a bit too hard somebody

2007
01:27:57,110 --> 01:27:53,840
that wasn't

2008
01:28:00,149 --> 01:27:57,120
stable uh to begin with well we stopped

2009
01:28:02,390 --> 01:28:00,159
the investigation in 1986

2010
01:28:03,270 --> 01:28:02,400
and uh i thought i became friends with

2011
01:28:06,310 --> 01:28:03,280
paul and

2012
01:28:08,709 --> 01:28:06,320
and i told paul at dinner that

2013
01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:08,719
um you know some of the information we

2014
01:28:13,270 --> 01:28:11,440
gave him was in fact

2015
01:28:15,030 --> 01:28:13,280
wrong but he wouldn't believe me he

2016
01:28:16,470 --> 01:28:15,040
never ever would believe me

2017
01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:16,480
he said rick i know you're just telling

2018
01:28:19,270 --> 01:28:18,960
me this but you don't have to tell me

2019
01:28:21,590 --> 01:28:19,280
that

2020
01:28:23,110 --> 01:28:21,600
i did this all on my own nobody forced

2021
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:23,120
me to do this and this is what

2022
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:25,760
he was telling his wife and sons who who

2023
01:28:30,229 --> 01:28:27,760
really hated me

2024
01:28:31,750 --> 01:28:30,239
for for doing this but paul had other

2025
01:28:35,590 --> 01:28:31,760
problems

2026
01:28:38,629 --> 01:28:37,910
to the reason why he was in in a mental

2027
01:28:40,950 --> 01:28:38,639
hospital

2028
01:28:42,310 --> 01:28:40,960
there was many many many many other

2029
01:28:44,229 --> 01:28:42,320
problems uh

2030
01:28:45,750 --> 01:28:44,239
medically that paul had well and that's

2031
01:28:49,350 --> 01:28:45,760
what i'm suggesting here

2032
01:28:52,229 --> 01:28:49,360
that if all of this is going on that

2033
01:28:53,189 --> 01:28:52,239
uh you know pushing this on you know

2034
01:28:57,350 --> 01:28:53,199
misleading

2035
01:28:59,750 --> 01:28:57,360
uh with intent is going to facilitate

2036
01:29:02,550 --> 01:28:59,760
other uh medical problems that he is

2037
01:29:07,110 --> 01:29:04,870
well you know i guess you know

2038
01:29:08,709 --> 01:29:07,120
hindsight's always 20 20 and

2039
01:29:11,350 --> 01:29:08,719
the monday morning quarterbacks always

2040
01:29:12,550 --> 01:29:11,360
right but uh at the time we were doing

2041
01:29:15,510 --> 01:29:12,560
what we thought

2042
01:29:17,189 --> 01:29:15,520
i mean my headquarters i was doing what

2043
01:29:18,550 --> 01:29:17,199
i was told to do

2044
01:29:20,709 --> 01:29:18,560
from my headquarters they gave me

2045
01:29:23,830 --> 01:29:20,719
instructions on what to do when i didn't

2046
01:29:25,910 --> 01:29:23,840
and i never forced

2047
01:29:26,950 --> 01:29:25,920
anything on paul we never gave paul

2048
01:29:29,189 --> 01:29:26,960
drugs

2049
01:29:29,990 --> 01:29:29,199
we never fully maneuvered we never

2050
01:29:32,470 --> 01:29:30,000
planted stuff

2051
01:29:34,629 --> 01:29:32,480
on paul all these stories are being told

2052
01:29:37,990 --> 01:29:34,639
none of that ever happened

2053
01:29:39,510 --> 01:29:38,000
and uh you know it you know if i

2054
01:29:40,790 --> 01:29:39,520
if i had to do all over again it

2055
01:29:41,669 --> 01:29:40,800
probably would have ran a lot

2056
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:41,679
differently

2057
01:29:45,910 --> 01:29:43,920
but another another thing involved in

2058
01:29:47,510 --> 01:29:45,920
this was nsa

2059
01:29:49,590 --> 01:29:47,520
they became involved in this and they

2060
01:29:53,669 --> 01:29:49,600
sent people in at paul

2061
01:29:56,229 --> 01:29:53,679
it wasn't just us right it was nsa so

2062
01:29:58,629 --> 01:29:56,239
and and uh they did more harm i think to

2063
01:30:00,149 --> 01:29:58,639
paul than than we could have ever done

2064
01:30:01,669 --> 01:30:00,159
we need to take a break right here

2065
01:30:03,750 --> 01:30:01,679
richard stay right there

2066
01:30:06,229 --> 01:30:03,760
this is fade to black i am your host

2067
01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:06,239
jimmy church tonight richard dodie

2068
01:30:10,709 --> 01:30:09,120
tomorrow night sheree and tony rathman

2069
01:30:12,390 --> 01:30:10,719
we're doing ghost hunting tomorrow night

2070
01:30:14,390 --> 01:30:12,400
thursday nights vader night open lines

2071
01:30:15,750 --> 01:30:14,400
all night long this is fade to black i'm

2072
01:30:24,460 --> 01:30:15,760
yours jimmy church

2073
01:30:24,470 --> 01:30:35,030
[Music]

2074
01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:38,229
way out here we listen to jimmy church

2075
01:30:43,110 --> 01:30:41,280
you're listening to fade to black

2076
01:30:44,310 --> 01:30:43,120
always on the edge of the hottest

2077
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:44,320
alternative talk

2078
01:30:51,730 --> 01:31:03,189
[Applause]

2079
01:31:07,270 --> 01:31:05,270
do you want to be an official fate or

2080
01:31:09,270 --> 01:31:07,280
not of course you do

2081
01:31:11,270 --> 01:31:09,280
this is jimmy church of fade to black

2082
01:31:14,310 --> 01:31:11,280
just go to our membership section

2083
01:31:16,310 --> 01:31:14,320
at jimmychurchradio.com

2084
01:31:17,590 --> 01:31:16,320
bait or not when you think about the

2085
01:31:19,270 --> 01:31:17,600
future of our country

2086
01:31:20,950 --> 01:31:19,280
and where we're headed do you wonder

2087
01:31:23,590 --> 01:31:20,960
about the food supply

2088
01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:23,600
i do disruptions in the food supply

2089
01:31:27,270 --> 01:31:25,199
chain could be disastrous

2090
01:31:29,510 --> 01:31:27,280
and they usually occur with little

2091
01:31:30,550 --> 01:31:29,520
warning that's why the smartest thing

2092
01:31:33,750 --> 01:31:30,560
you can do today

2093
01:31:36,070 --> 01:31:33,760
is to stockpile emergency food water

2094
01:31:37,189 --> 01:31:36,080
and other essentials i personally

2095
01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:37,199
recommend my

2096
01:31:41,910 --> 01:31:39,360
patriot supply they're the nation's

2097
01:31:44,149 --> 01:31:41,920
largest emergency preparedness company

2098
01:31:45,270 --> 01:31:44,159
serving millions of customers for more

2099
01:31:47,669 --> 01:31:45,280
than a decade

2100
01:31:50,310 --> 01:31:47,679
in fact they're the only source my

2101
01:31:53,030 --> 01:31:50,320
family trusts for our preparedness plan

2102
01:31:54,310 --> 01:31:53,040
you should too right now save twenty

2103
01:31:56,550 --> 01:31:54,320
percent off a full

2104
01:31:57,430 --> 01:31:56,560
four week supply of delicious meals that

2105
01:32:01,030 --> 01:31:57,440
provide 2

2106
01:32:03,910 --> 01:32:01,040
000 calories a day saving 20 helps too

2107
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:03,920
doesn't it especially now so go to

2108
01:32:10,229 --> 01:32:06,960
prepare with jimmy.com and get ready

2109
01:32:11,510 --> 01:32:10,239
that's prepare with jimmy.com there's no

2110
01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:11,520
time to lose

2111
01:32:21,110 --> 01:32:18,830
so you love talk radio then you'll love

2112
01:32:23,669 --> 01:32:21,120
talkstreamlive.com talk stream live

2113
01:32:24,950 --> 01:32:23,679
is always on 24 7 with the best

2114
01:32:27,030 --> 01:32:24,960
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2115
01:32:28,550 --> 01:32:27,040
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2116
01:32:31,189 --> 01:32:28,560
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2117
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2118
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with any smartphone or tablet

2119
01:32:37,669 --> 01:32:34,960
finding your favorite talk shows all in

2120
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one place has gotten a whole lot easier

2121
01:32:55,629 --> 01:32:52,830
[Music]

2122
01:32:59,350 --> 01:32:55,639
downl

2123
01:33:06,149 --> 01:33:01,350
you are listening to fate to black with

2124
01:33:09,750 --> 01:33:08,709
hi i'm rhys evans you're listening to

2125
01:33:12,870 --> 01:33:09,760
jimmy church

2126
01:33:14,229 --> 01:33:12,880
this is revolution the revolution will

2127
01:33:20,830 --> 01:33:14,239
not be televised

2128
01:34:01,350 --> 01:33:22,310
ciao

2129
01:34:04,709 --> 01:34:03,270
welcome back fade to black i am your

2130
01:34:07,110 --> 01:34:04,719
host jimmy church tonight

2131
01:34:08,950 --> 01:34:07,120
richard dodie is here more with richard

2132
01:34:11,270 --> 01:34:08,960
in just a second

2133
01:34:12,709 --> 01:34:11,280
i'm going to let everybody know it's

2134
01:34:14,950 --> 01:34:12,719
going to be a great show tonight

2135
01:34:17,830 --> 01:34:14,960
already a great conversation but after i

2136
01:34:20,390 --> 01:34:17,840
close down the studio and head home

2137
01:34:22,149 --> 01:34:20,400
rita has got her famous chicken and rice

2138
01:34:25,030 --> 01:34:22,159
waiting for me it's going to be a

2139
01:34:26,229 --> 01:34:25,040
great night i want to talk to you about

2140
01:34:29,270 --> 01:34:26,239
virtual shield

2141
01:34:32,709 --> 01:34:29,280
vpn i talked to you about this last week

2142
01:34:33,750 --> 01:34:32,719
where the data of 2.3 million users has

2143
01:34:35,830 --> 01:34:33,760
been leaked

2144
01:34:37,669 --> 01:34:35,840
after a hacker found a backdoor into a

2145
01:34:40,709 --> 01:34:37,679
popular dating site called

2146
01:34:41,270 --> 01:34:40,719
meet mindful the personal data that was

2147
01:34:44,390 --> 01:34:41,280
hacked

2148
01:34:45,030 --> 01:34:44,400
included names facebook ids emails

2149
01:34:47,910 --> 01:34:45,040
birthdays

2150
01:34:49,910 --> 01:34:47,920
location data the data was then uploaded

2151
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:49,920
to a public hacking form for

2152
01:34:54,310 --> 01:34:52,880
anybody to download you don't want this

2153
01:34:57,510 --> 01:34:54,320
to happen to you

2154
01:35:00,550 --> 01:34:57,520
attacks like that can be prevented i

2155
01:35:02,470 --> 01:35:00,560
highly recommend virtual shield vpn you

2156
01:35:05,990 --> 01:35:02,480
can see here in the studio i've got

2157
01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:06,000
six computers that run this show

2158
01:35:10,390 --> 01:35:08,960
all have virtual shield vpn or studio

2159
01:35:13,750 --> 01:35:10,400
next door

2160
01:35:13,990 --> 01:35:13,760
virtual shield vpn it's very simple to

2161
01:35:17,350 --> 01:35:14,000
do

2162
01:35:19,189 --> 01:35:17,360
forward slash

2163
01:35:21,270 --> 01:35:19,199
fade to black that's all you got to do

2164
01:35:23,990 --> 01:35:21,280
virtual shield dot com forward slash

2165
01:35:25,109 --> 01:35:24,000
fade to black you do that you will get

2166
01:35:28,629 --> 01:35:25,119
virtual shield

2167
01:35:31,109 --> 01:35:28,639
vpn for 50 off today also you can

2168
01:35:31,990 --> 01:35:31,119
just click on the video link in the

2169
01:35:36,470 --> 01:35:32,000
description

2170
01:35:39,350 --> 01:35:36,480
box below virtual shield vpn

2171
01:35:39,990 --> 01:35:39,360
our guest tonight richard doty and uh

2172
01:35:44,470 --> 01:35:40,000
richard

2173
01:35:47,510 --> 01:35:44,480
we're calling this show ufo spy games

2174
01:35:49,189 --> 01:35:47,520
and this is this is interesting stuff

2175
01:35:51,669 --> 01:35:49,199
and i want to um

2176
01:35:52,629 --> 01:35:51,679
i want to talk about the book which i

2177
01:35:55,830 --> 01:35:52,639
have exempt

2178
01:35:59,669 --> 01:35:55,840
from disclosure um did you co-author

2179
01:36:03,510 --> 01:35:59,679
that book uh with a robert collins

2180
01:36:06,550 --> 01:36:03,520
no i did not okay i think the story

2181
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:06,560
this story's been out a long time i've

2182
01:36:11,109 --> 01:36:09,119
i've uh even at one point tried to sue

2183
01:36:14,149 --> 01:36:11,119
him uh he put my name on there

2184
01:36:14,629 --> 01:36:14,159
uh bob collins approached me some years

2185
01:36:17,830 --> 01:36:14,639
ago

2186
01:36:20,310 --> 01:36:17,840
probably 20 about writing a book

2187
01:36:21,430 --> 01:36:20,320
and i said well uh you know i'll i'll

2188
01:36:23,910 --> 01:36:21,440
help you

2189
01:36:25,109 --> 01:36:23,920
with some information in the book but i

2190
01:36:26,790 --> 01:36:25,119
don't i i

2191
01:36:28,470 --> 01:36:26,800
at that time i was trying to write my

2192
01:36:31,830 --> 01:36:28,480
own book and so

2193
01:36:35,510 --> 01:36:31,840
so bob published the book

2194
01:36:37,430 --> 01:36:35,520
himself because no other self-published

2195
01:36:40,470 --> 01:36:37,440
it because no other

2196
01:36:42,310 --> 01:36:40,480
publishing company would touch it so and

2197
01:36:45,430 --> 01:36:42,320
what i tell people is about

2198
01:36:47,430 --> 01:36:45,440
uh 20 percent of his book is factual is

2199
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:47,440
is absolutely fact so

2200
01:36:54,310 --> 01:36:51,280
factual about 30 percent of his book

2201
01:36:57,830 --> 01:36:54,320
is speculation and the other 50

2202
01:36:59,750 --> 01:36:57,840
of it is absolutely false

2203
01:37:01,750 --> 01:36:59,760
so okay that's what i'll tell you about

2204
01:37:02,470 --> 01:37:01,760
the book sure sure i think the copy i

2205
01:37:05,590 --> 01:37:02,480
have uh

2206
01:37:08,950 --> 01:37:05,600
you're you're the uh the the co-author

2207
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:08,960
um on it and so yeah i wanted to ask you

2208
01:37:13,270 --> 01:37:10,320
that directly but

2209
01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:13,280
there are uh a couple of things in the

2210
01:37:17,590 --> 01:37:14,000
book though

2211
01:37:21,189 --> 01:37:17,600
that i find very interesting um

2212
01:37:24,870 --> 01:37:21,199
and uh three of those items are

2213
01:37:26,709 --> 01:37:24,880
cia documents and in

2214
01:37:28,629 --> 01:37:26,719
and i know you know what i'm referring

2215
01:37:31,510 --> 01:37:28,639
to but in one of those documents

2216
01:37:33,590 --> 01:37:31,520
it said uh you know it's referencing

2217
01:37:37,270 --> 01:37:33,600
mj12 and stuff but they

2218
01:37:40,870 --> 01:37:37,280
it's a missing ebe

2219
01:37:43,910 --> 01:37:40,880
now uh what what what did did

2220
01:37:46,790 --> 01:37:43,920
uh first off uh you you know about the

2221
01:37:50,229 --> 01:37:46,800
document that i'm talking about right

2222
01:37:54,070 --> 01:37:50,239
yes okay did did the cia

2223
01:37:57,350 --> 01:37:54,080
or one of the agencies lose uh

2224
01:38:03,990 --> 01:37:57,360
an extraterrestrial biological entity

2225
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:04,000
is is that part of it factual well

2226
01:38:10,470 --> 01:38:07,920
yes they did they actually

2227
01:38:11,990 --> 01:38:10,480
it wasn't it wasn't necessarily cia but

2228
01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:12,000
um

2229
01:38:15,990 --> 01:38:15,440
there was a a extraterrestrial

2230
01:38:19,030 --> 01:38:16,000
biological

2231
01:38:24,070 --> 01:38:19,040
entity that escaped

2232
01:38:31,830 --> 01:38:28,390
and what what happened did did we

2233
01:38:36,310 --> 01:38:31,840
did i want to say retrieve

2234
01:38:42,790 --> 01:38:40,149
yeah yes we did um yes we did we we

2235
01:38:44,790 --> 01:38:42,800
well we got the body back we recovered

2236
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:44,800
the body but uh

2237
01:38:52,950 --> 01:38:49,199
it's a long story uh it it was a

2238
01:38:55,990 --> 01:38:52,960
it was in a holding area uh it escaped

2239
01:39:00,310 --> 01:38:56,000
i don't know how it escaped uh it went

2240
01:39:03,430 --> 01:39:00,320
uh from the containment area which was

2241
01:39:05,350 --> 01:39:03,440
a little bit south of uh of the groom

2242
01:39:07,590 --> 01:39:05,360
lake complex

2243
01:39:08,950 --> 01:39:07,600
they actually call it annex ii i believe

2244
01:39:11,990 --> 01:39:08,960
or nx4

2245
01:39:15,109 --> 01:39:12,000
anyways uh and they and the creature

2246
01:39:18,629 --> 01:39:15,119
made it all the way up north

2247
01:39:21,830 --> 01:39:18,639
towards warm springs nevada uh

2248
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:21,840
and um a hunter

2249
01:39:27,189 --> 01:39:25,280
and and this is this has been released

2250
01:39:31,350 --> 01:39:27,199
this name of this guy

2251
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:31,360
uh gus this guy that shot the creature

2252
01:39:34,870 --> 01:39:34,159
and uh then notified the uh sheriff's

2253
01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:34,880
department

2254
01:39:39,430 --> 01:39:38,080
and the nevada game and fish and because

2255
01:39:41,030 --> 01:39:39,440
he didn't know what this thing was

2256
01:39:42,870 --> 01:39:41,040
you know he looked at it and she thought

2257
01:39:46,149 --> 01:39:42,880
it was some kind of

2258
01:39:50,390 --> 01:39:46,159
uh mutated animal

2259
01:39:53,590 --> 01:39:50,400
anyways and so that's that's the story

2260
01:39:56,629 --> 01:39:53,600
of that um were you involved or

2261
01:39:57,189 --> 01:39:56,639
were you at groom lake at this time i

2262
01:40:03,510 --> 01:39:57,199
was

2263
01:40:07,510 --> 01:40:03,520
report uh get to you we've got

2264
01:40:14,229 --> 01:40:10,870
uh i was one of four

2265
01:40:17,830 --> 01:40:14,239
uh osi agents at the uh

2266
01:40:21,109 --> 01:40:17,840
gremlin complex and uh

2267
01:40:23,990 --> 01:40:21,119
in at some

2268
01:40:25,109 --> 01:40:24,000
time i think it was a like noon or

2269
01:40:28,709 --> 01:40:25,119
something

2270
01:40:31,030 --> 01:40:28,719
uh the base security uh officer

2271
01:40:32,149 --> 01:40:31,040
or chief of security for the base who

2272
01:40:35,030 --> 01:40:32,159
was air force

2273
01:40:36,070 --> 01:40:35,040
the base actually uh was guarded by air

2274
01:40:38,870 --> 01:40:36,080
force personnel the

2275
01:40:40,550 --> 01:40:38,880
the the perimeter of the uh nellis test

2276
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:40,560
range was guarded by a whack and hot

2277
01:40:44,070 --> 01:40:42,320
security private security company

2278
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:44,080
anyways this uh chief of security i

2279
01:40:47,430 --> 01:40:45,360
believe he was lieutenant colonel came

2280
01:40:51,669 --> 01:40:47,440
to office and spoke to another

2281
01:40:55,669 --> 01:40:51,679
osi agent his name was wayne hutchinson

2282
01:40:58,870 --> 01:40:55,679
and uh and he told uh dwayne

2283
01:41:00,790 --> 01:40:58,880
what had happened and dwayne was cleared

2284
01:41:04,550 --> 01:41:00,800
for this type of stuff i wasn't

2285
01:41:06,870 --> 01:41:04,560
i wasn't cleared for it and so

2286
01:41:08,070 --> 01:41:06,880
dwayne needed help i mean we weren't

2287
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:08,080
going to go out and look for him the

2288
01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:10,400
base security people and they had other

2289
01:41:13,430 --> 01:41:13,040
uh specialists uh that were that were

2290
01:41:21,669 --> 01:41:13,440
the

2291
01:41:24,310 --> 01:41:21,679
would go out but

2292
01:41:25,910 --> 01:41:24,320
he needed help in uh the the security

2293
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:25,920
aspects of it and so he

2294
01:41:31,990 --> 01:41:28,960
briefed me and another

2295
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:32,000
uh osi agent in and was by emily

2296
01:41:35,990 --> 01:41:33,199
anderson

2297
01:41:38,149 --> 01:41:36,000
into what was going on and i you know

2298
01:41:40,709 --> 01:41:38,159
you know i first thing i said was

2299
01:41:42,310 --> 01:41:40,719
we have an e.t because i didn't know if

2300
01:41:45,590 --> 01:41:42,320
we had him there at the base but

2301
01:41:49,109 --> 01:41:45,600
anyways and so i didn't uh

2302
01:41:52,149 --> 01:41:49,119
the only thing i did was i um

2303
01:41:55,350 --> 01:41:52,159
notified some people uh

2304
01:41:59,430 --> 01:41:55,360
and i made maintain contact with

2305
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:59,440
local authorities um the the

2306
01:42:03,350 --> 01:42:01,280
i think it was the nye county sheriffs

2307
01:42:06,950 --> 01:42:03,360
and the lincoln county sheriffs

2308
01:42:09,350 --> 01:42:06,960
nevada highway patrol and and so forth

2309
01:42:10,870 --> 01:42:09,360
and getting that lead game and fish so

2310
01:42:13,910 --> 01:42:10,880
so that's what i did

2311
01:42:14,629 --> 01:42:13,920
the the how do you uh we're going to

2312
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:14,639
move on

2313
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:17,440
but i i just got to know how do you call

2314
01:42:22,709 --> 01:42:18,960
uh

2315
01:42:26,070 --> 01:42:22,719
him

2316
01:42:28,629 --> 01:42:26,080
about an escaped alien

2317
01:42:29,510 --> 01:42:28,639
no it wasn't any we didn't use the word

2318
01:42:32,149 --> 01:42:29,520
right right right

2319
01:42:32,709 --> 01:42:32,159
right how do you have that conversation

2320
01:42:34,709 --> 01:42:32,719
well we

2321
01:42:36,629 --> 01:42:34,719
we call and advise them that we're

2322
01:42:40,390 --> 01:42:36,639
looking we're searching

2323
01:42:42,550 --> 01:42:40,400
for a a a highly dangerous

2324
01:42:43,990 --> 01:42:42,560
uh military person who escaped from

2325
01:42:46,229 --> 01:42:44,000
confinement

2326
01:42:47,430 --> 01:42:46,239
and that this person could be extremely

2327
01:42:51,510 --> 01:42:47,440
dangerous

2328
01:42:54,629 --> 01:42:51,520
and we the base that their force

2329
01:42:57,109 --> 01:42:54,639
is going to be responsible for for for

2330
01:42:58,709 --> 01:42:57,119
finding him and and capturing them

2331
01:43:00,310 --> 01:42:58,719
and so we really don't need your

2332
01:43:01,910 --> 01:43:00,320
assistance you're going to see us

2333
01:43:03,350 --> 01:43:01,920
driving all around the base the

2334
01:43:04,790 --> 01:43:03,360
perimeter and the roads

2335
01:43:06,550 --> 01:43:04,800
and so we just want to let you know what

2336
01:43:09,590 --> 01:43:06,560
we're doing uh

2337
01:43:11,669 --> 01:43:09,600
that didn't actually work because

2338
01:43:12,950 --> 01:43:11,679
there was already a sheriff's deputy and

2339
01:43:14,870 --> 01:43:12,960
i believe it was a night county

2340
01:43:18,629 --> 01:43:14,880
sheriff's deputy his name was uh

2341
01:43:20,870 --> 01:43:18,639
sheldon um he was later killed uh

2342
01:43:21,910 --> 01:43:20,880
some some years later anyways he was

2343
01:43:24,390 --> 01:43:21,920
there

2344
01:43:25,109 --> 01:43:24,400
because gaiman the the guy that shot the

2345
01:43:28,229 --> 01:43:25,119
alien

2346
01:43:28,870 --> 01:43:28,239
notified game and fish the conservation

2347
01:43:31,109 --> 01:43:28,880
officers

2348
01:43:33,510 --> 01:43:31,119
who then notified the sheriff and so

2349
01:43:35,189 --> 01:43:33,520
they were already at the scene

2350
01:43:36,790 --> 01:43:35,199
of this person that this creature that

2351
01:43:39,990 --> 01:43:36,800
was dead so they

2352
01:43:41,830 --> 01:43:40,000
then we had to debrief them and i didn't

2353
01:43:42,229 --> 01:43:41,840
do the debriefing dwayne hutchinson did

2354
01:43:44,629 --> 01:43:42,239
so i

2355
01:43:46,229 --> 01:43:44,639
i don't know how he actually told him

2356
01:43:49,350 --> 01:43:46,239
you know just forget what you're seeing

2357
01:43:53,350 --> 01:43:49,360
uh i don't i don't know uh i'm sure he

2358
01:43:55,910 --> 01:43:53,360
probably uh a lot of times we uh

2359
01:43:56,950 --> 01:43:55,920
give the rewards and money-wise you keep

2360
01:43:59,910 --> 01:43:56,960
quiet and we

2361
01:44:01,270 --> 01:43:59,920
give you you know 500 now and a year

2362
01:44:02,229 --> 01:44:01,280
from now we'll give you another or so

2363
01:44:03,990 --> 01:44:02,239
forth and so on

2364
01:44:06,310 --> 01:44:04,000
now this is not sure how they did that

2365
01:44:08,870 --> 01:44:06,320
this particular ebe

2366
01:44:10,229 --> 01:44:08,880
you know this is part of uh you know ufo

2367
01:44:12,229 --> 01:44:10,239
pop culture and things

2368
01:44:14,470 --> 01:44:12,239
they all had names did this one have a

2369
01:44:17,669 --> 01:44:14,480
name did you find out later was this

2370
01:44:21,270 --> 01:44:17,679
eb1 eb2 no no no

2371
01:44:24,709 --> 01:44:21,280
actually it wasn't it wasn't a a eva

2372
01:44:26,790 --> 01:44:24,719
it wasn't one of the um friendly ones it

2373
01:44:30,229 --> 01:44:26,800
was one of the hostile ones

2374
01:44:32,870 --> 01:44:30,239
it was one of the praying mantis types

2375
01:44:34,310 --> 01:44:32,880
and i think they call them trantaloids i

2376
01:44:35,350 --> 01:44:34,320
think somebody i don't know within the

2377
01:44:37,830 --> 01:44:35,360
government

2378
01:44:38,470 --> 01:44:37,840
names these uh creatures and and they

2379
01:44:41,830 --> 01:44:38,480
were

2380
01:44:43,830 --> 01:44:41,840
know how that's

2381
01:44:45,030 --> 01:44:43,840
the one that escaped do you know how

2382
01:44:48,629 --> 01:44:45,040
physically big

2383
01:44:51,910 --> 01:44:48,639
this was um

2384
01:44:56,629 --> 01:44:51,920
i saw pictures it he was uh or

2385
01:45:00,149 --> 01:44:56,639
it was probably seven foot tall

2386
01:45:03,910 --> 01:45:00,159
something to that effect and um yeah

2387
01:45:06,790 --> 01:45:03,920
here's the problem when when it was shot

2388
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:06,800
um and we i don't know that that we the

2389
01:45:11,510 --> 01:45:08,719
government knew this but

2390
01:45:12,470 --> 01:45:11,520
when when that particular uh creature

2391
01:45:19,750 --> 01:45:12,480
was

2392
01:45:20,950 --> 01:45:19,760
and gave off toxic fumes from the from

2393
01:45:23,030 --> 01:45:20,960
the body

2394
01:45:24,629 --> 01:45:23,040
and those toxic fumes made a lot of

2395
01:45:25,510 --> 01:45:24,639
people really really sick i don't

2396
01:45:28,149 --> 01:45:25,520
believe it

2397
01:45:29,990 --> 01:45:28,159
it killed anyone but that made him

2398
01:45:32,709 --> 01:45:30,000
really sick

2399
01:45:33,830 --> 01:45:32,719
and so what they had to do they figured

2400
01:45:37,990 --> 01:45:33,840
at the scene

2401
01:45:40,790 --> 01:45:38,000
i was told

2402
01:45:41,109 --> 01:45:40,800
and i'd read a report they had to bury

2403
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:41,119
it

2404
01:45:47,030 --> 01:45:44,400
immediately so they buried this thing

2405
01:45:47,910 --> 01:45:47,040
they dug a you know probably a 15-foot

2406
01:45:50,310 --> 01:45:47,920
oh i don't know how

2407
01:45:51,990 --> 01:45:50,320
i boot deep it was i think the reports

2408
01:45:54,550 --> 01:45:52,000
had a deep very deep hole

2409
01:45:55,669 --> 01:45:54,560
and and pushed this thing down inside it

2410
01:45:57,510 --> 01:45:55,679
and then covered it up

2411
01:45:59,830 --> 01:45:57,520
it was then they had sensors was it

2412
01:46:01,510 --> 01:45:59,840
buried at groom lake

2413
01:46:03,990 --> 01:46:01,520
no no no no it was very where it was

2414
01:46:07,109 --> 01:46:04,000
shot oh and that was

2415
01:46:07,910 --> 01:46:07,119
that was off the base it was uh it was

2416
01:46:11,270 --> 01:46:07,920
west of

2417
01:46:15,030 --> 01:46:11,280
uh reveille mill road it was about

2418
01:46:17,830 --> 01:46:15,040
six or seven miles uh north of the

2419
01:46:19,109 --> 01:46:17,840
uh northeast corner of the nellis test

2420
01:46:21,910 --> 01:46:19,119
and training range

2421
01:46:22,709 --> 01:46:21,920
it was it was on blm property it was

2422
01:46:24,310 --> 01:46:22,719
buried

2423
01:46:26,149 --> 01:46:24,320
they didn't want to go through i guess

2424
01:46:27,669 --> 01:46:26,159
they didn't want to

2425
01:46:28,790 --> 01:46:27,679
harm anyone else or they didn't know

2426
01:46:29,750 --> 01:46:28,800
what the fumes were going to do to

2427
01:46:31,430 --> 01:46:29,760
people that

2428
01:46:33,669 --> 01:46:31,440
since when they got there there were

2429
01:46:35,350 --> 01:46:33,679
already people overcome by the fumes

2430
01:46:36,870 --> 01:46:35,360
so they decided to just bury it and

2431
01:46:39,030 --> 01:46:36,880
that's what they did so

2432
01:46:39,990 --> 01:46:39,040
right right now right now there's a

2433
01:46:43,430 --> 01:46:40,000
buried

2434
01:46:47,030 --> 01:46:43,440
mantad on blm land

2435
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:47,040
off base well

2436
01:46:54,390 --> 01:46:50,560
there's more to this there's more to it

2437
01:46:56,390 --> 01:46:54,400
um six years afterwards

2438
01:46:58,229 --> 01:46:56,400
then that they'd put sensors up uh

2439
01:47:01,510 --> 01:46:58,239
around the burial site

2440
01:47:04,629 --> 01:47:01,520
okay and i think they they even

2441
01:47:05,990 --> 01:47:04,639
tested i i'm not sure exactly how they

2442
01:47:08,709 --> 01:47:06,000
guarded but

2443
01:47:10,229 --> 01:47:08,719
six years later they went in and

2444
01:47:13,510 --> 01:47:10,239
reclamated that area

2445
01:47:17,030 --> 01:47:13,520
they dug up everything and and the the

2446
01:47:20,229 --> 01:47:17,040
what all they found was somewhat of a

2447
01:47:22,870 --> 01:47:20,239
not quite a skeletal uh

2448
01:47:23,910 --> 01:47:22,880
remains like we would have but some some

2449
01:47:26,149 --> 01:47:23,920
type of

2450
01:47:26,950 --> 01:47:26,159
of skeletal remain i'll call it skeletal

2451
01:47:29,990 --> 01:47:26,960
remains for

2452
01:47:34,149 --> 01:47:30,000
a better choice of words uh and

2453
01:47:34,550 --> 01:47:34,159
and all the uh the material the skins

2454
01:47:37,910 --> 01:47:34,560
and

2455
01:47:40,790 --> 01:47:37,920
the organs were already uh

2456
01:47:41,910 --> 01:47:40,800
destroyed or permeated into the soil so

2457
01:47:43,350 --> 01:47:41,920
they dug all that up

2458
01:47:45,189 --> 01:47:43,360
and they replaced it and they took all

2459
01:47:46,149 --> 01:47:45,199
that other stuff back and i don't know

2460
01:47:49,189 --> 01:47:46,159
what they did with it

2461
01:47:50,310 --> 01:47:49,199
so i uh six years later you and i can't

2462
01:47:54,229 --> 01:47:50,320
plan a road trip

2463
01:47:56,149 --> 01:47:54,239
is what i'm that's out of the question

2464
01:48:00,870 --> 01:47:56,159
well that you know this information came

2465
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:00,880
out in 1995

2466
01:48:06,470 --> 01:48:04,800
the guts came for he came forth

2467
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:06,480
he's dead now but he came forth and

2468
01:48:08,950 --> 01:48:07,760
tried to tell people and then nobody

2469
01:48:12,310 --> 01:48:08,960
believed him

2470
01:48:13,510 --> 01:48:12,320
and then when he finally uh he had taken

2471
01:48:15,910 --> 01:48:13,520
pictures

2472
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:15,920
of the creature and unbeknownst to the

2473
01:48:18,790 --> 01:48:17,440
air force because he said no i didn't

2474
01:48:21,990 --> 01:48:18,800
take any pictures

2475
01:48:24,310 --> 01:48:22,000
because when he shot it he had to drive

2476
01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:24,320
to his cabin which was like 12 miles

2477
01:48:27,590 --> 01:48:25,840
away

2478
01:48:29,270 --> 01:48:27,600
because nobody had cell phones back then

2479
01:48:31,030 --> 01:48:29,280
he had to call

2480
01:48:32,950 --> 01:48:31,040
the share that came and finished and

2481
01:48:34,470 --> 01:48:32,960
then he had to drive all the way back

2482
01:48:36,390 --> 01:48:34,480
on his way back he brought a camera and

2483
01:48:38,709 --> 01:48:36,400
took pictures and

2484
01:48:41,270 --> 01:48:38,719
there was a bar and grill it used to be

2485
01:48:43,189 --> 01:48:41,280
a bar and grill in warm springs

2486
01:48:45,830 --> 01:48:43,199
nevada which was on which was not far

2487
01:48:49,109 --> 01:48:45,840
from area 51 it's

2488
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:49,119
there's this bar and grill clothes

2489
01:48:55,270 --> 01:48:52,159
but there was a picture of this creature

2490
01:48:58,149 --> 01:48:55,280
hanging on the wall but nobody

2491
01:49:00,229 --> 01:48:58,159
really believed that that was they

2492
01:49:01,750 --> 01:49:00,239
thought it was just made up he would

2493
01:49:02,629 --> 01:49:01,760
tell people hey he'd go in there and

2494
01:49:04,390 --> 01:49:02,639
drink beer and say

2495
01:49:05,830 --> 01:49:04,400
you know that's the one i shot and

2496
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:05,840
nobody's going to believe me and nobody

2497
01:49:10,629 --> 01:49:06,960
did believe me

2498
01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:10,639
but in 1995 when they when he went forth

2499
01:49:15,430 --> 01:49:14,000
and and and i think it was a some kind

2500
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:15,440
of mufon

2501
01:49:21,270 --> 01:49:18,560
convention in nevada and sparks nevada

2502
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:21,280
uh people started thinking wow you know

2503
01:49:26,310 --> 01:49:23,280
maybe there are

2504
01:49:26,870 --> 01:49:26,320
but he didn't know the exact spot he

2505
01:49:28,310 --> 01:49:26,880
kind of

2506
01:49:30,149 --> 01:49:28,320
so there were people out there trying to

2507
01:49:32,229 --> 01:49:30,159
find him but

2508
01:49:34,070 --> 01:49:32,239
by then the air force had already dug it

2509
01:49:38,149 --> 01:49:34,080
up now let's talk about

2510
01:49:42,550 --> 01:49:38,159
you and your personal ebe

2511
01:49:47,270 --> 01:49:42,560
encounter you you visited los alamos

2512
01:49:51,030 --> 01:49:49,830
it wasn't at los alamos where was it i

2513
01:49:52,709 --> 01:49:51,040
thought it was los alamos

2514
01:49:54,470 --> 01:49:52,719
see i don't know i don't know everything

2515
01:49:56,310 --> 01:49:54,480
richard i don't know everything no no it

2516
01:50:00,709 --> 01:49:56,320
was it was at uh

2517
01:50:02,390 --> 01:50:00,719
it was at area 51 um i

2518
01:50:03,750 --> 01:50:02,400
this other agent in the office by the

2519
01:50:07,830 --> 01:50:03,760
name of russell

2520
01:50:12,950 --> 01:50:10,070
investigation on a person that had

2521
01:50:15,270 --> 01:50:12,960
disclosed classified information

2522
01:50:16,950 --> 01:50:15,280
about about any tea that they had there

2523
01:50:20,070 --> 01:50:16,960
and and this particular

2524
01:50:23,189 --> 01:50:20,080
the the e the uh et

2525
01:50:25,350 --> 01:50:23,199
that he did he did he disclosed was eva

2526
01:50:26,390 --> 01:50:25,360
the the even that they had there as a as

2527
01:50:30,229 --> 01:50:26,400
a guest

2528
01:50:32,229 --> 01:50:30,239
uh non-hostile the same

2529
01:50:33,430 --> 01:50:32,239
the same classification of aliens that

2530
01:50:36,870 --> 01:50:33,440
was involved in a

2531
01:50:40,229 --> 01:50:36,880
roswell incident and uh

2532
01:50:43,109 --> 01:50:40,239
so we went over to a location

2533
01:50:44,629 --> 01:50:43,119
and um he said you want to see this

2534
01:50:46,390 --> 01:50:44,639
creature and i said i don't know when i

2535
01:50:47,830 --> 01:50:46,400
cleared for it yeah sure

2536
01:50:49,830 --> 01:50:47,840
so i'm looking at a closed circuit

2537
01:50:52,550 --> 01:50:49,840
television camera

2538
01:50:54,790 --> 01:50:52,560
of this creature and and that's how my

2539
01:50:58,229 --> 01:50:54,800
that's the closest i ever got to

2540
01:51:01,589 --> 01:50:58,239
an actual e.t he was he was in a room

2541
01:51:04,830 --> 01:51:01,599
a special room that he lived in uh

2542
01:51:07,669 --> 01:51:04,840
lights were on uh

2543
01:51:11,189 --> 01:51:07,679
about four foot tall

2544
01:51:13,750 --> 01:51:11,199
long arms uh typical large eye

2545
01:51:15,030 --> 01:51:13,760
typically the creature you'd see on the

2546
01:51:19,270 --> 01:51:15,040
internet

2547
01:51:23,109 --> 01:51:19,280
large i know ears no nose smallmouth

2548
01:51:25,910 --> 01:51:23,119
um that that was my encounter uh

2549
01:51:29,270 --> 01:51:25,920
was uh i'm going to say he was he

2550
01:51:38,149 --> 01:51:33,270
it was a he and he was wearing a

2551
01:51:41,750 --> 01:51:38,159
a uh one piece similar to a jumpsuit

2552
01:51:42,390 --> 01:51:41,760
um how tall how big could you tell from

2553
01:51:45,669 --> 01:51:42,400
uh

2554
01:51:49,030 --> 01:51:45,679
the the monitor about four foot

2555
01:51:53,510 --> 01:51:49,040
about four foot probably weighed um

2556
01:51:56,390 --> 01:51:53,520
you know 50 or 60 pounds very slender

2557
01:51:57,990 --> 01:51:56,400
what was he what was he doing when you

2558
01:52:02,310 --> 01:51:58,000
were observing him

2559
01:52:04,390 --> 01:52:02,320
he was he was talking to another uh

2560
01:52:06,550 --> 01:52:04,400
i'm not sure who the other person ever a

2561
01:52:08,229 --> 01:52:06,560
human he was a human inside that room

2562
01:52:10,229 --> 01:52:08,239
and he was talking to the human but

2563
01:52:10,709 --> 01:52:10,239
there was no sound it was just a close

2564
01:52:14,070 --> 01:52:10,719
picture

2565
01:52:17,510 --> 01:52:15,830
video but there wasn't any sounds i

2566
01:52:19,910 --> 01:52:17,520
don't know what they were talking about

2567
01:52:21,270 --> 01:52:19,920
i i don't know if uh if the creature

2568
01:52:24,709 --> 01:52:21,280
could talk

2569
01:52:26,629 --> 01:52:24,719
if it was uh telepathic

2570
01:52:28,790 --> 01:52:26,639
or what what it was but there was

2571
01:52:31,830 --> 01:52:28,800
another human in there

2572
01:52:34,709 --> 01:52:31,840
how many uh how many

2573
01:52:37,830 --> 01:52:34,719
uh ebens were at area 51 do you have any

2574
01:52:44,470 --> 01:52:41,830
uh not officially unofficially there

2575
01:52:45,510 --> 01:52:44,480
i heard there was two the one that that

2576
01:52:48,550 --> 01:52:45,520
i saw

2577
01:52:51,589 --> 01:52:48,560
and then another one that i believe was

2578
01:52:54,310 --> 01:52:51,599
was uh earlier of course we had the

2579
01:52:55,270 --> 01:52:54,320
evil one the one they found found live

2580
01:52:58,950 --> 01:52:55,280
in the roswell

2581
01:53:02,070 --> 01:52:58,960
crash a corona crash and he he lived

2582
01:53:04,629 --> 01:53:02,080
at los alamos uh for uh

2583
01:53:05,669 --> 01:53:04,639
until he died in 1952 that that was

2584
01:53:08,390 --> 01:53:05,679
considered to be evil

2585
01:53:09,109 --> 01:53:08,400
number one right and eva two was the one

2586
01:53:11,430 --> 01:53:09,119
that i would

2587
01:53:12,709 --> 01:53:11,440
that i saw but i understand there were

2588
01:53:16,470 --> 01:53:12,719
there was another one and

2589
01:53:20,310 --> 01:53:16,480
the the next one was code named j-rod

2590
01:53:22,070 --> 01:53:20,320
and it was a uh um and i believe it was

2591
01:53:25,990 --> 01:53:22,080
the same uh

2592
01:53:28,629 --> 01:53:26,000
et class that uh uh aviva one and two

2593
01:53:29,830 --> 01:53:28,639
now the evo one and two um in that

2594
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:29,840
classification

2595
01:53:35,030 --> 01:53:33,840
always thought that that was a pop

2596
01:53:36,870 --> 01:53:35,040
culture thing

2597
01:53:39,430 --> 01:53:36,880
are you saying that that was the

2598
01:53:42,870 --> 01:53:39,440
classification officially on the base

2599
01:53:46,070 --> 01:53:42,880
was was j-rod

2600
01:53:48,550 --> 01:53:46,080
that's that was his uh nickname um

2601
01:53:51,189 --> 01:53:48,560
i mean but on the base that's how uh he

2602
01:53:54,629 --> 01:53:51,199
was referred

2603
01:53:56,470 --> 01:53:54,639
yes yeah j-rod he had a special vehicle

2604
01:53:58,470 --> 01:53:56,480
i actually saw the vehicle i never saw

2605
01:54:01,830 --> 01:53:58,480
him i saw

2606
01:54:05,430 --> 01:54:01,840
the vehicle they had a had a specialized

2607
01:54:07,750 --> 01:54:05,440
box on the back of this flatbed

2608
01:54:08,950 --> 01:54:07,760
and apparently they had to transport him

2609
01:54:12,390 --> 01:54:08,960
in that

2610
01:54:16,229 --> 01:54:12,400
from wherever he lived to to uh

2611
01:54:19,430 --> 01:54:16,239
papoose where he worked at s-s-4

2612
01:54:21,669 --> 01:54:19,440
s-2 so and

2613
01:54:23,270 --> 01:54:21,679
and there's there was a air force

2614
01:54:25,589 --> 01:54:23,280
security guard

2615
01:54:27,109 --> 01:54:25,599
that spoke at the at a ufo convention a

2616
01:54:30,709 --> 01:54:27,119
few years ago

2617
01:54:34,550 --> 01:54:30,719
and he he described he worked with this

2618
01:54:37,669 --> 01:54:34,560
creature he'd seen him uh he says

2619
01:54:40,070 --> 01:54:37,679
it wasn't the same as an eben uh he

2620
01:54:41,109 --> 01:54:40,080
he was a different cr a different et

2621
01:54:44,149 --> 01:54:41,119
class

2622
01:54:46,550 --> 01:54:44,159
and and uh he could talk but his

2623
01:54:48,470 --> 01:54:46,560
his voice was very very very strange and

2624
01:54:51,030 --> 01:54:48,480
was very difficult to understand

2625
01:54:52,629 --> 01:54:51,040
but he's very smart and he has

2626
01:54:55,589 --> 01:54:52,639
apparently assisted us

2627
01:54:56,070 --> 01:54:55,599
in reverse engineering uh and this is

2628
01:54:57,910 --> 01:54:56,080
what

2629
01:54:59,189 --> 01:54:57,920
i i'm not telling you anything official

2630
01:55:00,629 --> 01:54:59,199
this is all unofficial

2631
01:55:02,390 --> 01:55:00,639
because i never had access to any of

2632
01:55:04,310 --> 01:55:02,400
that information while i was out there

2633
01:55:05,750 --> 01:55:04,320
but over the years listening going to

2634
01:55:07,589 --> 01:55:05,760
ufo conventions

2635
01:55:08,790 --> 01:55:07,599
this security guy i think his name was

2636
01:55:12,550 --> 01:55:08,800
zorn uh

2637
01:55:15,669 --> 01:55:12,560
yeah i remember yeah yeah he i mean he

2638
01:55:19,030 --> 01:55:15,679
he described this thing perfectly

2639
01:55:21,669 --> 01:55:19,040
and he had a um another person who

2640
01:55:23,270 --> 01:55:21,679
refused to to identify him as the cells

2641
01:55:24,629 --> 01:55:23,280
because they were i guess a scientist or

2642
01:55:26,149 --> 01:55:24,639
biologist or something

2643
01:55:28,229 --> 01:55:26,159
and he confirmed everything this guy

2644
01:55:30,870 --> 01:55:28,239
said and somebody

2645
01:55:32,070 --> 01:55:30,880
you know i don't know who but somebody

2646
01:55:34,790 --> 01:55:32,080
verified that this guy

2647
01:55:35,109 --> 01:55:34,800
this other guy actually worked there

2648
01:55:39,510 --> 01:55:35,119
some

2649
01:55:42,709 --> 01:55:39,520
verified it but now you had told me

2650
01:55:44,870 --> 01:55:42,719
a few years ago that when you first went

2651
01:55:48,310 --> 01:55:44,880
into afro

2652
01:55:49,270 --> 01:55:48,320
afosi that you went through a debriefing

2653
01:55:52,310 --> 01:55:49,280
class with

2654
01:55:55,430 --> 01:55:52,320
about uh i think you said 50

2655
01:55:56,229 --> 01:55:55,440
other people that were um all being

2656
01:55:59,589 --> 01:55:56,239
recruited

2657
01:55:59,990 --> 01:55:59,599
and and brought into afosi and that you

2658
01:56:04,709 --> 01:56:00,000
were

2659
01:56:07,589 --> 01:56:04,719
shown film from roswell

2660
01:56:08,070 --> 01:56:07,599
yes right yeah well yeah but this that

2661
01:56:11,990 --> 01:56:08,080
was

2662
01:56:13,589 --> 01:56:12,000
had to be when i

2663
01:56:15,669 --> 01:56:13,599
i said earlier i had to be briefed into

2664
01:56:17,030 --> 01:56:15,679
a special program and the special

2665
01:56:20,950 --> 01:56:17,040
program

2666
01:56:24,229 --> 01:56:20,960
was involved of that i had to go to a

2667
01:56:27,350 --> 01:56:24,239
air force special security office uh

2668
01:56:29,510 --> 01:56:27,360
on the base and uh colonel came in

2669
01:56:30,950 --> 01:56:29,520
and and briefed us there was a number of

2670
01:56:31,990 --> 01:56:30,960
people in the room i don't know exactly

2671
01:56:33,990 --> 01:56:32,000
how many

2672
01:56:35,990 --> 01:56:34,000
and we were briefed into this program in

2673
01:56:38,470 --> 01:56:36,000
this program the first thing they

2674
01:56:39,030 --> 01:56:38,480
the first thing the colonel said was uh

2675
01:56:41,350 --> 01:56:39,040
you know

2676
01:56:43,669 --> 01:56:41,360
the ufos that you see out here are

2677
01:56:46,470 --> 01:56:43,679
really extraterrestrial crafts

2678
01:56:46,870 --> 01:56:46,480
and um and i'm going to show you and i'm

2679
01:56:48,629 --> 01:56:46,880
going to

2680
01:56:50,070 --> 01:56:48,639
show you what we the united states

2681
01:56:52,550 --> 01:56:50,080
government knows

2682
01:56:53,990 --> 01:56:52,560
and then he started this film as a

2683
01:56:57,109 --> 01:56:54,000
briefing film

2684
01:56:58,310 --> 01:56:57,119
and it contained uh film of the of the

2685
01:57:01,750 --> 01:56:58,320
recovery

2686
01:57:03,350 --> 01:57:01,760
of uh at crona

2687
01:57:04,950 --> 01:57:03,360
and and you know that gets into a

2688
01:57:08,149 --> 01:57:04,960
pandora's box right there

2689
01:57:10,390 --> 01:57:08,159
uh of of of

2690
01:57:12,790 --> 01:57:10,400
what people have been saying and people

2691
01:57:15,350 --> 01:57:12,800
writing books and stories about

2692
01:57:16,870 --> 01:57:15,360
roswell and in the very few books out

2693
01:57:18,070 --> 01:57:16,880
there are factual according to the

2694
01:57:20,070 --> 01:57:18,080
briefing i got

2695
01:57:22,149 --> 01:57:20,080
i mean there was two crash sites one at

2696
01:57:24,310 --> 01:57:22,159
corona but there's actually two

2697
01:57:26,550 --> 01:57:24,320
locations one a debris field

2698
01:57:27,990 --> 01:57:26,560
which part the tail section of of the

2699
01:57:29,990 --> 01:57:28,000
craft that they found it

2700
01:57:31,109 --> 01:57:30,000
the full craft intact craft they found a

2701
01:57:33,750 --> 01:57:31,119
corona

2702
01:57:35,430 --> 01:57:33,760
uh had broken the tail section it was

2703
01:57:37,510 --> 01:57:35,440
like an antenna or something

2704
01:57:38,550 --> 01:57:37,520
and that is a debris field that they

2705
01:57:42,229 --> 01:57:38,560
found

2706
01:57:45,109 --> 01:57:42,239
didn't find a craft

2707
01:57:47,189 --> 01:57:45,119
the archeological team found the actual

2708
01:57:50,709 --> 01:57:47,199
craft and the live aliens

2709
01:57:53,270 --> 01:57:50,719
and and and there were uh

2710
01:57:54,950 --> 01:57:53,280
other another army unit that came to

2711
01:57:57,270 --> 01:57:54,960
that site along with

2712
01:57:58,229 --> 01:57:57,280
uh a sheriff's deputy and a state

2713
01:58:01,430 --> 01:57:58,239
trooper

2714
01:58:03,189 --> 01:58:01,440
so and then um some

2715
01:58:04,709 --> 01:58:03,199
two years later they found a crash site

2716
01:58:08,629 --> 01:58:04,719
out past magdalena

2717
01:58:10,470 --> 01:58:08,639
up near horse mesa and

2718
01:58:12,950 --> 01:58:10,480
it was a very remote area and the

2719
01:58:15,990 --> 01:58:12,960
rancher found this craft up there and

2720
01:58:18,950 --> 01:58:16,000
inside the craft were these dead aliens

2721
01:58:21,350 --> 01:58:18,960
and they were the same uh creatures as

2722
01:58:23,430 --> 01:58:21,360
the one that crashed in corona so

2723
01:58:24,790 --> 01:58:23,440
the government surmised that these two

2724
01:58:28,070 --> 01:58:24,800
crafts

2725
01:58:30,550 --> 01:58:28,080
in an electrical storm uh

2726
01:58:32,390 --> 01:58:30,560
somehow collided and one crashed in

2727
01:58:35,750 --> 01:58:32,400
corona one made it out to

2728
01:58:37,510 --> 01:58:35,760
pass magdalena horse mason crashed and

2729
01:58:40,149 --> 01:58:37,520
the one that crashed out of horse mesa

2730
01:58:41,910 --> 01:58:40,159
it's such a remote area that nobody ever

2731
01:58:43,189 --> 01:58:41,920
goes up there except for ranchers once

2732
01:58:45,189 --> 01:58:43,199
in a while and well

2733
01:58:46,310 --> 01:58:45,199
is this to find that one this

2734
01:58:49,510 --> 01:58:46,320
information was

2735
01:58:52,870 --> 01:58:49,520
this disclosed to you officially in

2736
01:58:55,350 --> 01:58:52,880
in that class yes yes

2737
01:58:57,430 --> 01:58:55,360
yeah sure this is this isn't stuff that

2738
01:59:00,229 --> 01:58:57,440
was in a book by stanton friedman

2739
01:59:00,550 --> 01:59:00,239
uh you know or at the ufo convention

2740
01:59:03,430 --> 01:59:00,560
this

2741
01:59:05,910 --> 01:59:03,440
is stuff that you were debriefed on well

2742
01:59:09,030 --> 01:59:05,920
this is stuff i told

2743
01:59:12,070 --> 01:59:09,040
i told stan right right right right

2744
01:59:13,189 --> 01:59:12,080
okay okay um we need to take a break

2745
01:59:15,669 --> 01:59:13,199
right here i'm gonna stay

2746
01:59:16,709 --> 01:59:15,679
right on this subject though uh we need

2747
01:59:18,950 --> 01:59:16,719
to keep this going

2748
01:59:20,390 --> 01:59:18,960
and uh we'll take our break right here i

2749
01:59:21,910 --> 01:59:20,400
guess tonight richard dodie i'm your

2750
01:59:23,350 --> 01:59:21,920
host jimmy church

2751
01:59:25,189 --> 01:59:23,360
richard i can already see that we're

2752
01:59:26,390 --> 01:59:25,199
gonna run out of time tonight so

2753
01:59:28,870 --> 01:59:26,400
you're gonna end up doing a little

2754
01:59:29,430 --> 01:59:28,880
overtime so i would suggest getting some

2755
01:59:31,189 --> 01:59:29,440
coffee

2756
01:59:32,180 --> 01:59:31,199
we'll be right back after this short

2757
01:59:37,510 --> 01:59:32,190
break stay with us

2758
01:59:45,109 --> 01:59:37,520
[Music]

2759
01:59:47,669 --> 01:59:45,119
hi everybody this is dot com

2760
01:59:48,709 --> 01:59:47,679
this is kgra digital broadcasting

2761
01:59:52,310 --> 01:59:48,719
station

2762
01:59:54,149 --> 01:59:52,320
salt lake city utah van buren arkansas

2763
01:59:56,310 --> 01:59:54,159
why is it we're not very good with our

2764
01:59:58,070 --> 01:59:56,320
health regiment until it's too late we

2765
01:59:59,910 --> 01:59:58,080
don't put oil in the car until the

2766
02:00:00,629 --> 01:59:59,920
engine blows up when the body's out of

2767
02:00:02,790 --> 02:00:00,639
balance

2768
02:00:03,910 --> 02:00:02,800
your health is not so good give your

2769
02:00:06,750 --> 02:00:03,920
body some love

2770
02:00:07,910 --> 02:00:06,760
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2771
02:00:09,910 --> 02:00:07,920
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2772
02:00:11,830 --> 02:00:09,920
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2773
02:00:13,990 --> 02:00:11,840
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2774
02:00:15,510 --> 02:00:14,000
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2775
02:00:17,510 --> 02:00:15,520
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2776
02:00:19,750 --> 02:00:17,520
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2777
02:00:22,070 --> 02:00:19,760
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2778
02:00:26,149 --> 02:00:22,080
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2779
02:00:28,390 --> 02:00:26,159
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2780
02:00:29,589 --> 02:00:28,400
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2781
02:00:31,910 --> 02:00:29,599
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2782
02:00:33,589 --> 02:00:31,920
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2783
02:00:34,870 --> 02:00:33,599
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2784
02:00:37,270 --> 02:00:34,880
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2785
02:00:38,550 --> 02:00:37,280
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2786
02:00:46,390 --> 02:00:38,560
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2787
02:00:48,709 --> 02:00:46,400
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2788
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2789
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2792
02:00:58,830 --> 02:00:56,400
contact for current news and trending

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topics

2794
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kgraradio.com

2795
02:01:04,310 --> 02:01:02,560
this is jimmy church of fade to black

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and i only drink

2797
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fade to black blend coffee from river

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2800
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promo code f2b blend

2801
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this is the only way forward this is

2802
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paid to black make contact

2803
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jgraradio.com

2804
02:01:32,790 --> 02:01:30,960
[Music]

2805
02:01:34,149 --> 02:01:32,800
when you're in the house for longer

2806
02:01:36,470 --> 02:01:34,159
periods of time

2807
02:01:38,229 --> 02:01:36,480
you can see them flying or running

2808
02:01:41,910 --> 02:01:38,239
across the floor

2809
02:01:43,270 --> 02:01:41,920
ooh yuck they're unhealthy gross and

2810
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2811
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2812
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but occasionally bugs show up well i

2813
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found something that is

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tougher than bugs orange guard on

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2821
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2823
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2824
02:02:21,149 --> 02:02:18,560
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2825
02:02:22,629 --> 02:02:21,159
orange guard available at

2826
02:02:35,830 --> 02:02:22,639
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2827
02:02:42,790 --> 02:02:38,950
you wanna know a secret i love

2828
02:02:46,470 --> 02:02:42,800
ponies i really love ponies i'm serious

2829
02:02:49,669 --> 02:02:46,480
i couldn't stay sane without ponies to

2830
02:02:50,629 --> 02:02:49,679
why fade to black because you never got

2831
02:02:54,950 --> 02:02:50,639
that pony

2832
02:02:59,510 --> 02:02:57,189
this is fade to black with jimmy church

2833
02:03:16,390 --> 02:02:59,520
on the game changer radio network

2834
02:03:20,149 --> 02:03:17,830
welcome back fade to black i'm yours

2835
02:03:21,990 --> 02:03:20,159
jimmy church tonight richard dodie

2836
02:03:24,070 --> 02:03:22,000
is with us i want to remind everybody

2837
02:03:25,910 --> 02:03:24,080
we've got a busy 12 days

2838
02:03:27,350 --> 02:03:25,920
uh that we're doing here tomorrow night

2839
02:03:31,189 --> 02:03:27,360
sheree and tony rathman

2840
02:03:38,070 --> 02:03:33,109
i had to hit the cough button hang on

2841
02:03:41,990 --> 02:03:40,310
thursday night is fader night and then

2842
02:03:44,550 --> 02:03:42,000
this weekend i am hosting

2843
02:03:46,550 --> 02:03:44,560
the conscious life expo tonight it's

2844
02:03:49,910 --> 02:03:46,560
richard dodi richard we have got

2845
02:03:51,830 --> 02:03:49,920
so much more to discuss

2846
02:03:53,669 --> 02:03:51,840
and i'm trying to pack all of this in

2847
02:03:55,510 --> 02:03:53,679
and i'm looking at the clock

2848
02:03:57,669 --> 02:03:55,520
and it's really strange two and a half

2849
02:04:00,229 --> 02:03:57,679
hours seems like a long time

2850
02:04:02,149 --> 02:04:00,239
and we're already running i'm just it's

2851
02:04:05,669 --> 02:04:02,159
now it's turned into a sprint

2852
02:04:08,790 --> 02:04:05,679
so stay with me stay with me okay um

2853
02:04:10,229 --> 02:04:08,800
okay let's uh let's uh change gears uh

2854
02:04:13,430 --> 02:04:10,239
just a little bit

2855
02:04:16,550 --> 02:04:13,440
um you you

2856
02:04:18,629 --> 02:04:16,560
uh said to me three years ago uh

2857
02:04:19,830 --> 02:04:18,639
something that i know that you heard a

2858
02:04:24,310 --> 02:04:19,840
lot about this my

2859
02:04:26,709 --> 02:04:24,320
phone blew up the next day uh with uh

2860
02:04:27,350 --> 02:04:26,719
all of the top names in ufology calling

2861
02:04:29,270 --> 02:04:27,360
me and

2862
02:04:30,390 --> 02:04:29,280
and and stuff because you had mentioned

2863
02:04:33,910 --> 02:04:30,400
on the show

2864
02:04:37,750 --> 02:04:33,920
that uh there were to your knowledge

2865
02:04:39,589 --> 02:04:37,760
that there were two assets uh on the ufo

2866
02:04:42,790 --> 02:04:39,599
circuit that were a-list

2867
02:04:45,430 --> 02:04:42,800
presenters uh that were out there

2868
02:04:46,629 --> 02:04:45,440
now my phone i i'm serious everybody

2869
02:04:48,950 --> 02:04:46,639
called me okay

2870
02:04:50,709 --> 02:04:48,960
is it me who who's he talking about is

2871
02:04:54,310 --> 02:04:50,719
it somebody else what do you think

2872
02:04:56,950 --> 02:04:54,320
and and it's it's been discussed a lot

2873
02:04:59,350 --> 02:04:56,960
um uh do you still stand by that

2874
02:05:02,310 --> 02:04:59,360
statement

2875
02:05:03,030 --> 02:05:02,320
yes yes yes yes there were there there

2876
02:05:07,510 --> 02:05:03,040
were

2877
02:05:08,870 --> 02:05:07,520
um spy so to speak within the ufo

2878
02:05:12,069 --> 02:05:08,880
community absolutely

2879
02:05:14,709 --> 02:05:12,079
now um and and they are uh

2880
02:05:15,990 --> 02:05:14,719
these two are are currently out there

2881
02:05:18,629 --> 02:05:16,000
speaking right now

2882
02:05:19,669 --> 02:05:18,639
it's just so i i want to understand what

2883
02:05:23,589 --> 02:05:19,679
we are

2884
02:05:26,069 --> 02:05:23,599
suggesting here well as of uh

2885
02:05:27,270 --> 02:05:26,079
you know i don't actually keep track of

2886
02:05:29,990 --> 02:05:27,280
them but

2887
02:05:30,629 --> 02:05:30,000
as of uh probably a couple years ago

2888
02:05:32,790 --> 02:05:30,639
they're still

2889
02:05:34,390 --> 02:05:32,800
uh still out there and they're they're

2890
02:05:38,069 --> 02:05:34,400
in uh

2891
02:05:41,030 --> 02:05:38,079
in roles within the ufo community yes

2892
02:05:41,589 --> 02:05:41,040
yes they and they and i know that

2893
02:05:44,870 --> 02:05:41,599
they're

2894
02:05:47,189 --> 02:05:44,880
still um

2895
02:05:48,229 --> 02:05:47,199
reporting back to certain people in the

2896
02:05:51,109 --> 02:05:48,239
intelligence community

2897
02:05:52,149 --> 02:05:51,119
now what's up with an asset like this

2898
02:05:55,350 --> 02:05:52,159
what is their

2899
02:06:01,750 --> 02:05:58,470
well you know i had them too

2900
02:06:02,709 --> 02:06:01,760
and bill moore was mine uh and and and

2901
02:06:05,910 --> 02:06:02,719
there were others

2902
02:06:06,950 --> 02:06:05,920
uh wendell stevens was was was a very

2903
02:06:09,510 --> 02:06:06,960
cooperating

2904
02:06:11,109 --> 02:06:09,520
person too the late wendell stephens i'm

2905
02:06:15,350 --> 02:06:11,119
sure everybody knows him

2906
02:06:19,030 --> 02:06:15,360
uh to keep track of what is occurring

2907
02:06:21,750 --> 02:06:19,040
within the ufo community

2908
02:06:22,229 --> 02:06:21,760
the government can't be everywhere there

2909
02:06:26,629 --> 02:06:22,239
may be

2910
02:06:30,310 --> 02:06:26,639
happened that's only reported to

2911
02:06:32,390 --> 02:06:30,320
the ufo community mufon or cause or

2912
02:06:34,709 --> 02:06:32,400
back in those days at pro and not

2913
02:06:36,550 --> 02:06:34,719
reported to the government agency

2914
02:06:38,390 --> 02:06:36,560
that the air force or the government

2915
02:06:41,030 --> 02:06:38,400
would want to know about

2916
02:06:43,589 --> 02:06:41,040
because number one it could be something

2917
02:06:47,270 --> 02:06:43,599
highly classified that we're testing

2918
02:06:50,310 --> 02:06:47,280
or it could be an extraterrestrial

2919
02:06:56,709 --> 02:06:53,669
problem for us for the government uh

2920
02:06:59,109 --> 02:06:56,719
hostile act so to speak by by a by

2921
02:06:59,750 --> 02:06:59,119
e.t race that we don't know about so

2922
02:07:03,430 --> 02:06:59,760
that's why

2923
02:07:04,550 --> 02:07:03,440
doing is there is there money that

2924
02:07:06,229 --> 02:07:04,560
changes hands

2925
02:07:08,950 --> 02:07:06,239
uh with these assets for this

2926
02:07:12,310 --> 02:07:11,910
well i can't i can't talk about the ones

2927
02:07:15,430 --> 02:07:12,320
that

2928
02:07:22,629 --> 02:07:15,440
the

2929
02:07:26,069 --> 02:07:22,639
now um and so you're suggesting

2930
02:07:28,550 --> 02:07:26,079
uh information uh going back

2931
02:07:29,990 --> 02:07:28,560
to the government okay they're

2932
02:07:31,350 --> 02:07:30,000
collecting information what about the

2933
02:07:34,790 --> 02:07:31,360
opposite direction

2934
02:07:37,830 --> 02:07:34,800
are they given information to

2935
02:07:40,870 --> 02:07:37,840
present uh to the ufo community and to

2936
02:07:44,870 --> 02:07:40,880
the media

2937
02:07:47,669 --> 02:07:44,880
uh yes uh sure

2938
02:07:49,189 --> 02:07:47,679
yeah it goes both ways i mean i don't

2939
02:07:52,069 --> 02:07:49,199
know about the two that i'm talking

2940
02:07:53,990 --> 02:07:52,079
that that i know i know that they're

2941
02:07:57,430 --> 02:07:54,000
number one one of them i i

2942
02:07:59,750 --> 02:07:57,440
confronted uh at a at a mega

2943
02:08:00,950 --> 02:07:59,760
con uh a couple years ago or the one i

2944
02:08:03,990 --> 02:08:00,960
spoke at

2945
02:08:07,589 --> 02:08:04,000
and he said he told me no absolutely not

2946
02:08:09,990 --> 02:08:07,599
but uh sometime later when we were alone

2947
02:08:10,950 --> 02:08:10,000
he said who told you this and i said

2948
02:08:12,310 --> 02:08:10,960
well i know

2949
02:08:14,550 --> 02:08:12,320
i mean you don't have to admit to me i'm

2950
02:08:16,310 --> 02:08:14,560
not going to tell anybody your name

2951
02:08:17,830 --> 02:08:16,320
and he said well i there's a reason why

2952
02:08:19,830 --> 02:08:17,840
i'm doing what i'm doing i said well

2953
02:08:20,390 --> 02:08:19,840
that's that's your reason and i left it

2954
02:08:24,550 --> 02:08:20,400
at that

2955
02:08:28,550 --> 02:08:24,560
but

2956
02:08:30,390 --> 02:08:28,560
um we we we give

2957
02:08:32,229 --> 02:08:30,400
and and this is when i was in back in

2958
02:08:34,550 --> 02:08:32,239
the 80s i'm not talking about

2959
02:08:36,149 --> 02:08:34,560
now i'm not in government now i'm not a

2960
02:08:37,830 --> 02:08:36,159
intelligence officer

2961
02:08:39,270 --> 02:08:37,840
i don't have anything to do with air

2962
02:08:43,430 --> 02:08:39,280
force anymore

2963
02:08:47,510 --> 02:08:43,440
but back in those days uh sure we gave

2964
02:08:50,390 --> 02:08:47,520
information uh especially to mask

2965
02:08:51,589 --> 02:08:50,400
something that has that that was

2966
02:08:53,990 --> 02:08:51,599
reported

2967
02:08:55,109 --> 02:08:54,000
is say for instance if uh back in that

2968
02:08:59,910 --> 02:08:55,119
those days if

2969
02:09:03,109 --> 02:08:59,920
if somebody photographed or saw an f-117

2970
02:09:04,069 --> 02:09:03,119
uh flying real low altitude over some

2971
02:09:06,550 --> 02:09:04,079
place

2972
02:09:07,430 --> 02:09:06,560
and it's reported to mufon or cause or

2973
02:09:10,229 --> 02:09:07,440
afro

2974
02:09:11,510 --> 02:09:10,239
uh and so they're saying wow that's a

2975
02:09:14,629 --> 02:09:11,520
ufo or

2976
02:09:17,589 --> 02:09:14,639
and we might provide information

2977
02:09:17,990 --> 02:09:17,599
to strengthen that uh which which that

2978
02:09:20,229 --> 02:09:18,000
was my

2979
02:09:21,270 --> 02:09:20,239
job to do i mean i wouldn't make up the

2980
02:09:23,750 --> 02:09:21,280
information it would

2981
02:09:25,669 --> 02:09:23,760
still come from headquarters but we

2982
02:09:29,430 --> 02:09:25,679
would provide

2983
02:09:31,350 --> 02:09:29,440
information and and you know anybody uh

2984
02:09:32,709 --> 02:09:31,360
just use a little common sense the

2985
02:09:34,550 --> 02:09:32,719
government i know people

2986
02:09:35,750 --> 02:09:34,560
not everybody out there listening work

2987
02:09:38,950 --> 02:09:35,760
for the government that

2988
02:09:40,069 --> 02:09:38,960
we have to protect the government has to

2989
02:09:42,709 --> 02:09:40,079
protect

2990
02:09:44,069 --> 02:09:42,719
uh classified projects we back then

2991
02:09:44,550 --> 02:09:44,079
especially in those days we can't let

2992
02:09:48,229 --> 02:09:44,560
the

2993
02:09:52,229 --> 02:09:48,239
what we're doing

2994
02:09:54,870 --> 02:09:52,239
uh it's it's it's trouble enough for us

2995
02:09:55,830 --> 02:09:54,880
to safeguard uh the the the

2996
02:09:57,910 --> 02:09:55,840
classification

2997
02:09:58,950 --> 02:09:57,920
and safeguard the projects that we were

2998
02:10:00,950 --> 02:09:58,960
working on

2999
02:10:03,270 --> 02:10:00,960
front that the soviets were actually

3000
02:10:06,069 --> 02:10:03,280
trying to get let alone

3001
02:10:07,510 --> 02:10:06,079
american citizens publishing something

3002
02:10:10,470 --> 02:10:07,520
in a newspaper

3003
02:10:11,750 --> 02:10:10,480
uh that the soviets can can read and

3004
02:10:13,910 --> 02:10:11,760
find out about

3005
02:10:15,030 --> 02:10:13,920
so we have to protect the national

3006
02:10:16,709 --> 02:10:15,040
defense

3007
02:10:18,069 --> 02:10:16,719
of the united states and that's well

3008
02:10:21,109 --> 02:10:18,079
that's why we were doing it

3009
02:10:23,830 --> 02:10:21,119
now uh going back speaking about

3010
02:10:26,550 --> 02:10:23,840
assets you know bill moore and uh jamie

3011
02:10:30,550 --> 02:10:26,560
chanderay and of course stan friedman

3012
02:10:33,589 --> 02:10:30,560
and the set of mj12 documents uh

3013
02:10:34,790 --> 02:10:33,599
that uh absolutely astounded the entire

3014
02:10:38,390 --> 02:10:34,800
planet

3015
02:10:40,069 --> 02:10:38,400
uh did you provide those documents to

3016
02:10:42,470 --> 02:10:40,079
bill moore

3017
02:10:43,669 --> 02:10:42,480
no no absolutely not where did those

3018
02:10:47,430 --> 02:10:43,679
documents come from

3019
02:10:49,430 --> 02:10:47,440
where did they come from um um

3020
02:10:53,030 --> 02:10:49,440
i i think they came from the government

3021
02:10:57,350 --> 02:10:53,040
but you know i wasn't the only person in

3022
02:11:02,550 --> 02:10:57,360
in the world doing what i was doing

3023
02:11:05,669 --> 02:11:02,560
there were 122 afosi special agents

3024
02:11:08,310 --> 02:11:05,679
around the united states and and and

3025
02:11:10,229 --> 02:11:08,320
and some locations and overseas that

3026
02:11:12,390 --> 02:11:10,239
were doing that that was doing the exact

3027
02:11:15,510 --> 02:11:12,400
same thing that i was doing

3028
02:11:17,350 --> 02:11:15,520
so i wasn't the only one doing this so

3029
02:11:18,950 --> 02:11:17,360
there were a lot of other agents doing

3030
02:11:21,589 --> 02:11:18,960
what i was doing

3031
02:11:22,790 --> 02:11:21,599
so other agents uh could have been

3032
02:11:26,390 --> 02:11:22,800
involved

3033
02:11:30,069 --> 02:11:26,400
i think the the government was satisfied

3034
02:11:32,149 --> 02:11:30,079
in in when the i think at some point

3035
02:11:33,189 --> 02:11:32,159
when they investigated me and some

3036
02:11:35,830 --> 02:11:33,199
others

3037
02:11:37,189 --> 02:11:35,840
for leaking these things supposedly and

3038
02:11:38,310 --> 02:11:37,199
i would clear it because i didn't have

3039
02:11:41,189 --> 02:11:38,320
anything to do with it

3040
02:11:43,589 --> 02:11:41,199
i i didn't know about these things until

3041
02:11:46,870 --> 02:11:43,599
bill moore showed him to me and that was

3042
02:11:47,750 --> 02:11:46,880
uh almost 15 months later after they'd

3043
02:11:51,430 --> 02:11:47,760
been out

3044
02:11:52,229 --> 02:11:51,440
did bill tell you did bill disclose to

3045
02:11:55,669 --> 02:11:52,239
you then that

3046
02:11:57,990 --> 02:11:55,679
you know the uh the mj-12 documents were

3047
02:11:59,030 --> 02:11:58,000
you know provided to him from somebody

3048
02:12:02,229 --> 02:11:59,040
else

3049
02:12:05,430 --> 02:12:02,239
you know from the government no no

3050
02:12:08,629 --> 02:12:05,440
he told me that they came from jamie

3051
02:12:12,310 --> 02:12:08,639
jamie got him and

3052
02:12:15,430 --> 02:12:12,320
so when i looked at him i i knew

3053
02:12:15,910 --> 02:12:15,440
that a lot not i didn't know everything

3054
02:12:18,790 --> 02:12:15,920
in

3055
02:12:20,390 --> 02:12:18,800
those documents but i know a great deal

3056
02:12:23,030 --> 02:12:20,400
that was in that document

3057
02:12:25,589 --> 02:12:23,040
and those documents were true i mean

3058
02:12:28,069 --> 02:12:25,599
they're factual the information is real

3059
02:12:28,950 --> 02:12:28,079
but the documents themselves were fake

3060
02:12:32,470 --> 02:12:28,960
those those

3061
02:12:33,350 --> 02:12:32,480
exactly i i immediately i immediately

3062
02:12:35,510 --> 02:12:33,360
told

3063
02:12:37,030 --> 02:12:35,520
i mean i'd worked with classification

3064
02:12:40,390 --> 02:12:37,040
classified documents

3065
02:12:41,669 --> 02:12:40,400
i i i did reports where i had to

3066
02:12:44,470 --> 02:12:41,679
classify them

3067
02:12:46,229 --> 02:12:44,480
there's set procedures back in those

3068
02:12:49,189 --> 02:12:46,239
days it was dod

3069
02:12:50,950 --> 02:12:49,199
regulation 5200 that that tells you

3070
02:12:54,550 --> 02:12:50,960
exactly how you classify

3071
02:12:57,270 --> 02:12:54,560
things and i went to class

3072
02:12:59,669 --> 02:12:57,280
after class on that so when i looked at

3073
02:13:02,470 --> 02:12:59,679
those things i said you know what

3074
02:13:03,109 --> 02:13:02,480
bill this information i mean some of it

3075
02:13:06,629 --> 02:13:03,119
i knew

3076
02:13:09,109 --> 02:13:06,639
then some of it i never

3077
02:13:10,229 --> 02:13:09,119
never i'd never read or didn't know

3078
02:13:13,270 --> 02:13:10,239
anything about

3079
02:13:13,910 --> 02:13:13,280
uh i said but these documents are a fake

3080
02:13:17,589 --> 02:13:13,920
because

3081
02:13:19,750 --> 02:13:17,599
you don't classify this way the down

3082
02:13:21,030 --> 02:13:19,760
grading instructions is in this way you

3083
02:13:22,709 --> 02:13:21,040
don't put the marking and

3084
02:13:24,790 --> 02:13:22,719
i gave him all these reasons why this

3085
02:13:28,629 --> 02:13:24,800
doc these documents weren't

3086
02:13:31,270 --> 02:13:28,639
was made by somebody else well then

3087
02:13:34,229 --> 02:13:31,280
some some other agents contacted jamie

3088
02:13:37,270 --> 02:13:34,239
because he was liv he was living in

3089
02:13:39,589 --> 02:13:37,280
california yeah he was in burbank yeah

3090
02:13:41,589 --> 02:13:39,599
and and and they interviewed him and

3091
02:13:44,870 --> 02:13:41,599
they got the fbi involved

3092
02:13:47,990 --> 02:13:44,880
uh they they i know uh

3093
02:13:51,830 --> 02:13:48,000
at some point they had bugged uh

3094
02:13:54,870 --> 02:13:51,840
jamie's phone uh his uh

3095
02:13:56,550 --> 02:13:54,880
and i think they even placed the monitor

3096
02:13:59,910 --> 02:13:56,560
in his car

3097
02:14:01,030 --> 02:13:59,920
uh and they followed him and i didn't

3098
02:14:02,709 --> 02:14:01,040
have anything to do with any of this

3099
02:14:03,830 --> 02:14:02,719
that was done by other agents in

3100
02:14:07,910 --> 02:14:03,840
california

3101
02:14:10,950 --> 02:14:07,920
and um he led him to a guy

3102
02:14:13,189 --> 02:14:10,960
uh in um

3103
02:14:14,390 --> 02:14:13,199
just outside barstow i believe it was

3104
02:14:17,589 --> 02:14:14,400
barstow

3105
02:14:20,709 --> 02:14:17,599
uh or was it uh

3106
02:14:23,589 --> 02:14:20,719
victorville uh one of the two anyways

3107
02:14:24,390 --> 02:14:23,599
jamie went to some place and met with

3108
02:14:27,030 --> 02:14:24,400
somebody

3109
02:14:28,790 --> 02:14:27,040
and then the the agents then found out

3110
02:14:30,149 --> 02:14:28,800
who that person was

3111
02:14:31,830 --> 02:14:30,159
and called him in and found that that

3112
02:14:36,310 --> 02:14:31,840
person worked for

3113
02:14:38,950 --> 02:14:36,320
um the jet propulsion laboratory

3114
02:14:39,350 --> 02:14:38,960
uh in wherever some place in california

3115
02:14:46,069 --> 02:14:39,360
yeah

3116
02:14:46,870 --> 02:14:46,079
and so there was an investigation uh

3117
02:14:49,990 --> 02:14:46,880
started on

3118
02:14:51,910 --> 02:14:50,000
on that person and i used to know i i

3119
02:14:53,510 --> 02:14:51,920
don't remember his this person's name

3120
02:14:55,589 --> 02:14:53,520
but he got fired

3121
02:14:56,550 --> 02:14:55,599
from from his job i think he was a

3122
02:15:00,069 --> 02:14:56,560
scientist

3123
02:15:02,950 --> 02:15:00,079
he got fired from his job but then also

3124
02:15:04,069 --> 02:15:02,960
they then they leapfrogged uh on

3125
02:15:06,310 --> 02:15:04,079
somebody that

3126
02:15:07,109 --> 02:15:06,320
he had contact with that worked for

3127
02:15:10,470 --> 02:15:07,119
boeing

3128
02:15:12,790 --> 02:15:10,480
in seattle and that's even an entirely

3129
02:15:15,830 --> 02:15:12,800
different story because bill

3130
02:15:18,950 --> 02:15:15,840
moore was following this at this

3131
02:15:19,910 --> 02:15:18,960
this lead himself without me telling him

3132
02:15:21,589 --> 02:15:19,920
to do

3133
02:15:22,950 --> 02:15:21,599
and he went to seattle and he got

3134
02:15:25,910 --> 02:15:22,960
confronted and

3135
02:15:28,229 --> 02:15:25,920
his briefcase was stolen from him uh we

3136
02:15:30,149 --> 02:15:28,239
found his briefcase or we didn't but

3137
02:15:32,950 --> 02:15:30,159
the fbi found his briefcase sometime

3138
02:15:35,350 --> 02:15:32,960
later at this other person's house

3139
02:15:35,990 --> 02:15:35,360
uh that that worked for boeing aircraft

3140
02:15:39,350 --> 02:15:36,000
in the in the

3141
02:15:42,470 --> 02:15:39,360
uh uh special section they call it

3142
02:15:44,390 --> 02:15:42,480
or uh yeah special section which was a

3143
02:15:47,589 --> 02:15:44,400
classified

3144
02:15:50,709 --> 02:15:47,599
area for boeing so it led

3145
02:15:52,709 --> 02:15:50,719
to a lot of other people with uh all of

3146
02:15:55,589 --> 02:15:52,719
this because of a tv producer

3147
02:15:57,030 --> 02:15:55,599
jamie chanderie i i find it all very

3148
02:15:59,589 --> 02:15:57,040
very interesting

3149
02:16:02,149 --> 02:15:59,599
and i remember i've gone back and

3150
02:16:05,669 --> 02:16:02,159
listened to this show a few times

3151
02:16:08,390 --> 02:16:05,679
uh where bill moore uh was on the radio

3152
02:16:11,510 --> 02:16:08,400
here in l.a on kabc

3153
02:16:14,229 --> 02:16:11,520
and uh a show called open minds and

3154
02:16:14,990 --> 02:16:14,239
he had said on the show 1980 i'm going

3155
02:16:18,870 --> 02:16:15,000
to say

3156
02:16:21,910 --> 02:16:18,880
85 1986 right in there

3157
02:16:24,310 --> 02:16:21,920
and he says um i've got

3158
02:16:26,149 --> 02:16:24,320
and i remember specifically he said i

3159
02:16:27,750 --> 02:16:26,159
just came off this convention i spoke

3160
02:16:30,069 --> 02:16:27,760
last week next week i'm here

3161
02:16:31,669 --> 02:16:30,079
and a week after that i'm in switzerland

3162
02:16:33,190 --> 02:16:31,679
i'm coming back and i'm speaking here

3163
02:16:36,150 --> 02:16:33,200
then i'm off to chicago

3164
02:16:37,910 --> 02:16:36,160
right he was like the busiest guy on the

3165
02:16:39,509 --> 02:16:37,920
circuit there's no doubt about that

3166
02:16:41,349 --> 02:16:39,519
and with everything that he was

3167
02:16:42,790 --> 02:16:41,359
revealing and he said in the shows with

3168
02:16:46,150 --> 02:16:42,800
bill jenkins

3169
02:16:47,270 --> 02:16:46,160
and he says uh i next week i'm going to

3170
02:16:51,110 --> 02:16:47,280
reveal

3171
02:16:51,589 --> 02:16:51,120
uh a new document uh that is coming into

3172
02:16:53,589 --> 02:16:51,599
me

3173
02:16:54,629 --> 02:16:53,599
that is going to blow the lid off of

3174
02:16:57,110 --> 02:16:54,639
everything

3175
02:16:57,910 --> 02:16:57,120
now i go back and i think about his

3176
02:17:01,349 --> 02:16:57,920
statement

3177
02:17:04,870 --> 02:17:01,359
then these types of documents

3178
02:17:08,709 --> 02:17:04,880
that bill moore was constantly producing

3179
02:17:10,389 --> 02:17:08,719
were they coming from you no

3180
02:17:12,709 --> 02:17:10,399
where was he getting there from the only

3181
02:17:16,469 --> 02:17:12,719
thing actually

3182
02:17:19,750 --> 02:17:16,479
now as i said earlier uh to go into this

3183
02:17:22,230 --> 02:17:19,760
uh in deep uh details

3184
02:17:24,629 --> 02:17:22,240
would take hours and hours and hours

3185
02:17:28,309 --> 02:17:24,639
because jamie had

3186
02:17:32,070 --> 02:17:28,319
contacts he had a particular uh he

3187
02:17:35,509 --> 02:17:32,080
he was is a complex case

3188
02:17:36,870 --> 02:17:35,519
he he made a friend in washington dc he

3189
02:17:39,349 --> 02:17:36,880
was a lieutenant colonel

3190
02:17:40,830 --> 02:17:39,359
in the united states army who worked for

3191
02:17:43,589 --> 02:17:40,840
the uh

3192
02:17:46,950 --> 02:17:43,599
uh army security command

3193
02:17:50,389 --> 02:17:46,960
at belt fort belvoir and this person

3194
02:17:56,309 --> 02:17:50,399
that jamie uh befriended

3195
02:17:57,910 --> 02:17:56,319
uh wanted information about ufos because

3196
02:18:01,030 --> 02:17:57,920
he said

3197
02:18:03,830 --> 02:18:01,040
jamie had wandered onto something

3198
02:18:05,110 --> 02:18:03,840
jamie and his uh his girlfriend i can't

3199
02:18:08,549 --> 02:18:05,120
remember her name but

3200
02:18:11,990 --> 02:18:08,559
um and and that uh

3201
02:18:13,190 --> 02:18:12,000
he was going to help jamie find out all

3202
02:18:16,309 --> 02:18:13,200
about this well

3203
02:18:19,270 --> 02:18:16,319
come to find out the person that uh that

3204
02:18:19,669 --> 02:18:19,280
jamie this lieutenant colonel was in

3205
02:18:21,509 --> 02:18:19,679
fact

3206
02:18:23,270 --> 02:18:21,519
an intelligence officer for the united

3207
02:18:26,549 --> 02:18:23,280
states army

3208
02:18:28,629 --> 02:18:26,559
and he was trying to recruit jamie

3209
02:18:30,870 --> 02:18:28,639
and he did he actually recruited him he

3210
02:18:33,509 --> 02:18:30,880
gave jamie fifteen thousand dollars to

3211
02:18:35,030 --> 02:18:33,519
to open up a business unfortunately

3212
02:18:37,110 --> 02:18:35,040
jamie spent the money

3213
02:18:38,230 --> 02:18:37,120
on something else he didn't and this all

3214
02:18:39,910 --> 02:18:38,240
came out years later i

3215
02:18:41,270 --> 02:18:39,920
i didn't know any anything about this at

3216
02:18:44,629 --> 02:18:41,280
the time

3217
02:18:47,750 --> 02:18:44,639
so uh i think the government

3218
02:18:49,030 --> 02:18:47,760
was working jamie in some direction well

3219
02:18:50,870 --> 02:18:49,040
i had no idea

3220
02:18:52,309 --> 02:18:50,880
that they were working him because

3221
02:18:53,429 --> 02:18:52,319
everything's compartmented within the

3222
02:18:55,589 --> 02:18:53,439
government

3223
02:18:56,870 --> 02:18:55,599
why they were using this guy he was a he

3224
02:19:00,309 --> 02:18:56,880
was a nut

3225
02:19:03,509 --> 02:19:00,319
i mean this guy was he he

3226
02:19:07,190 --> 02:19:03,519
had us he told stories about him being

3227
02:19:10,389 --> 02:19:07,200
abducted by us navy seals

3228
02:19:12,629 --> 02:19:10,399
near coronado island and taken out

3229
02:19:14,469 --> 02:19:12,639
uh 20 miles out the ocean and dropped in

3230
02:19:16,950 --> 02:19:14,479
the ocean to drown

3231
02:19:18,230 --> 02:19:16,960
and then they came and picked him up and

3232
02:19:19,750 --> 02:19:18,240
they put him on a ship and they

3233
02:19:23,589 --> 02:19:19,760
interrogated him and

3234
02:19:26,629 --> 02:19:23,599
i mean things that just didn't happen

3235
02:19:29,110 --> 02:19:26,639
and i don't i don't know

3236
02:19:30,549 --> 02:19:29,120
janie jamie david he wasn't a drinker

3237
02:19:32,230 --> 02:19:30,559
but i i'm

3238
02:19:34,469 --> 02:19:32,240
pretty sure he probably used some kind

3239
02:19:37,910 --> 02:19:34,479
of lucy

3240
02:19:41,349 --> 02:19:37,920
he had nice hair though he did

3241
02:19:44,230 --> 02:19:41,359
he had nice hair he had he had nice hair

3242
02:19:44,709 --> 02:19:44,240
he used a very fine line of hair care

3243
02:19:47,990 --> 02:19:44,719
products

3244
02:19:50,710 --> 02:19:48,000
no no doubt well the um uh

3245
02:19:51,750 --> 02:19:50,720
the other part of this though is that

3246
02:19:55,429 --> 02:19:51,760
ultimately

3247
02:19:56,309 --> 02:19:55,439
we know how the the story ends with bill

3248
02:19:59,030 --> 02:19:56,319
moore

3249
02:19:59,750 --> 02:19:59,040
um in las vegas were you there at the

3250
02:20:03,750 --> 02:19:59,760
mufon

3251
02:20:07,030 --> 02:20:03,760
symposium when he made the announcement

3252
02:20:10,230 --> 02:20:07,040
yes i was and did you know that this

3253
02:20:16,150 --> 02:20:13,510
no bill told me that he was going to

3254
02:20:19,270 --> 02:20:16,160
make a startling announcement

3255
02:20:22,870 --> 02:20:19,280
now i got to the convention

3256
02:20:25,590 --> 02:20:22,880
uh late um i didn't i i got there

3257
02:20:27,270 --> 02:20:25,600
before he spoke but uh and i didn't have

3258
02:20:28,150 --> 02:20:27,280
a chance to meet with him a lot before

3259
02:20:30,150 --> 02:20:28,160
that i had

3260
02:20:31,590 --> 02:20:30,160
there were other people there that uh

3261
02:20:34,469 --> 02:20:31,600
that i was meeting with

3262
02:20:34,790 --> 02:20:34,479
and but like an hour or two before he

3263
02:20:38,309 --> 02:20:34,800
was

3264
02:20:40,230 --> 02:20:38,319
to go on uh we sat in a table uh i think

3265
02:20:41,349 --> 02:20:40,240
we were eating lunch or something and he

3266
02:20:42,870 --> 02:20:41,359
said

3267
02:20:44,950 --> 02:20:42,880
that's what he told me i'm gonna make a

3268
02:20:47,510 --> 02:20:44,960
startling revelation

3269
02:20:48,469 --> 02:20:47,520
uh during my speech and i didn't think

3270
02:20:50,309 --> 02:20:48,479
much of it

3271
02:20:52,309 --> 02:20:50,319
you know i thought he found something

3272
02:20:53,429 --> 02:20:52,319
that i said well we'll get together

3273
02:20:55,030 --> 02:20:53,439
later

3274
02:20:56,710 --> 02:20:55,040
and he said i don't know that you'll

3275
02:20:59,190 --> 02:20:56,720
want to later

3276
02:21:01,429 --> 02:20:59,200
and that's when i it hurt my curiosity

3277
02:21:03,110 --> 02:21:01,439
is like what is he going to say

3278
02:21:04,710 --> 02:21:03,120
and then i was sitting in the back with

3279
02:21:07,429 --> 02:21:04,720
some other people

3280
02:21:08,309 --> 02:21:07,439
all intelligence officers and uh and

3281
02:21:12,150 --> 02:21:08,319
then

3282
02:21:15,349 --> 02:21:12,160
we listened to him and

3283
02:21:16,630 --> 02:21:15,359
i mean i i i i have spoken to so many

3284
02:21:19,750 --> 02:21:16,640
people that were there i

3285
02:21:21,030 --> 02:21:19,760
i i wasn't uh i've read all of the

3286
02:21:24,550 --> 02:21:21,040
accounts

3287
02:21:26,790 --> 02:21:24,560
but i can't imagine uh with all of the

3288
02:21:28,070 --> 02:21:26,800
conference that i conferences that i

3289
02:21:30,309 --> 02:21:28,080
host as you know

3290
02:21:31,429 --> 02:21:30,319
throughout the year if something like

3291
02:21:34,469 --> 02:21:31,439
that was

3292
02:21:35,429 --> 02:21:34,479
said eddie i'm not sure how i would

3293
02:21:37,349 --> 02:21:35,439
react

3294
02:21:38,710 --> 02:21:37,359
or the rest of the audience but this is

3295
02:21:41,750 --> 02:21:38,720
part of history

3296
02:21:45,270 --> 02:21:41,760
this is fact it actually went down

3297
02:21:47,190 --> 02:21:45,280
what went through your mind uh when

3298
02:21:49,349 --> 02:21:47,200
when he got to those very famous

3299
02:21:51,670 --> 02:21:49,359
sentences

3300
02:21:55,030 --> 02:21:51,680
well i thought you know one thing i i

3301
02:21:57,270 --> 02:21:55,040
immediately worried about was his safety

3302
02:21:58,790 --> 02:21:57,280
i thought that somebody in the year is

3303
02:22:01,190 --> 02:21:58,800
going to you know try to

3304
02:22:02,150 --> 02:22:01,200
beat him up or something and that's my

3305
02:22:04,630 --> 02:22:02,160
first

3306
02:22:06,830 --> 02:22:04,640
thought i thought my god why would why

3307
02:22:10,550 --> 02:22:06,840
would he say these things

3308
02:22:12,309 --> 02:22:10,560
and about 90 of everything you said was

3309
02:22:15,990 --> 02:22:12,319
factual there's some things he

3310
02:22:16,389 --> 02:22:16,000
exaggerated on uh that he supposedly

3311
02:22:19,510 --> 02:22:16,399
knew

3312
02:22:22,309 --> 02:22:19,520
and did um but you know that

3313
02:22:23,110 --> 02:22:22,319
for the most part it was it was factual

3314
02:22:27,590 --> 02:22:23,120
and truth and

3315
02:22:30,790 --> 02:22:27,600
and i was you know flabbergasted and

3316
02:22:32,389 --> 02:22:30,800
and afterwards uh you know he said

3317
02:22:34,389 --> 02:22:32,399
you're gonna punch me in a nose

3318
02:22:35,670 --> 02:22:34,399
i mean we were out in the parking lot

3319
02:22:38,070 --> 02:22:35,680
and

3320
02:22:39,590 --> 02:22:38,080
yeah i said no i you know you you said

3321
02:22:41,750 --> 02:22:39,600
what you wanted to say

3322
02:22:43,190 --> 02:22:41,760
i just wonder why he said i want to get

3323
02:22:43,990 --> 02:22:43,200
over it i want to get out of this

3324
02:22:46,389 --> 02:22:44,000
subject

3325
02:22:47,270 --> 02:22:46,399
i don't ever want to come back to it and

3326
02:22:50,710 --> 02:22:47,280
i thought i'd

3327
02:22:52,870 --> 02:22:50,720
i'd just end it and and and my for

3328
02:22:54,150 --> 02:22:52,880
participation in it and well he

3329
02:22:57,190 --> 02:22:54,160
certainly did

3330
02:22:57,510 --> 02:22:57,200
and uh i can imagine the mob mentality

3331
02:23:00,230 --> 02:22:57,520
that

3332
02:23:02,710 --> 02:23:00,240
uh was very close to kicking off he's at

3333
02:23:04,790 --> 02:23:02,720
the front he's speaking at the podium

3334
02:23:06,070 --> 02:23:04,800
um again i wasn't there but it's my

3335
02:23:09,510 --> 02:23:06,080
understanding

3336
02:23:10,469 --> 02:23:09,520
he he literally wrapped what he was

3337
02:23:13,349 --> 02:23:10,479
saying

3338
02:23:15,030 --> 02:23:13,359
and then and cut and ran he went out the

3339
02:23:16,950 --> 02:23:15,040
back door yeah

3340
02:23:19,030 --> 02:23:16,960
yep he went out the back door well he's

3341
02:23:20,389 --> 02:23:19,040
had a set apparently with one of the

3342
02:23:21,910 --> 02:23:20,399
organizers

3343
02:23:24,230 --> 02:23:21,920
uh and i didn't know this still

3344
02:23:24,630 --> 02:23:24,240
afterwards that uh you know he was going

3345
02:23:28,230 --> 02:23:24,640
to

3346
02:23:28,710 --> 02:23:28,240
microphone off and so forth but he was

3347
02:23:32,070 --> 02:23:28,720
going to

3348
02:23:34,150 --> 02:23:32,080
exit out the back door and um

3349
02:23:35,110 --> 02:23:34,160
and he and he did and you're at that but

3350
02:23:38,710 --> 02:23:35,120
he didn't

3351
02:23:41,030 --> 02:23:38,720
the back

3352
02:23:43,030 --> 02:23:41,040
so you've got to go out the the front

3353
02:23:46,150 --> 02:23:43,040
doors right

3354
02:23:49,429 --> 02:23:46,160
and yeah and chase

3355
02:23:52,469 --> 02:23:49,439
but you had to chase him down no no

3356
02:23:55,670 --> 02:23:52,479
no no what but bill didn't leave

3357
02:23:59,190 --> 02:23:55,680
he he left there but he didn't leave the

3358
02:24:00,870 --> 02:23:59,200
the conference he was staying at another

3359
02:24:04,389 --> 02:24:00,880
location and

3360
02:24:06,950 --> 02:24:04,399
um so i tried to i tried to go

3361
02:24:08,469 --> 02:24:06,960
you know i went out the front and and

3362
02:24:10,469 --> 02:24:08,479
tried to catch him but

3363
02:24:11,750 --> 02:24:10,479
but he was he was i couldn't find him i

3364
02:24:14,150 --> 02:24:11,760
didn't know where he went

3365
02:24:15,910 --> 02:24:14,160
i went to his room later the least the

3366
02:24:18,950 --> 02:24:15,920
one that was in the hotel

3367
02:24:22,550 --> 02:24:18,960
but he wasn't there yeah and i went down

3368
02:24:26,230 --> 02:24:22,560
and uh he checked out and so uh

3369
02:24:29,750 --> 02:24:26,240
but then i caught up with him uh

3370
02:24:31,270 --> 02:24:29,760
that that next morning and uh

3371
02:24:33,110 --> 02:24:31,280
and we talked we we actually had

3372
02:24:35,590 --> 02:24:33,120
breakfast uh early

3373
02:24:37,270 --> 02:24:35,600
brunch i think and and i was a little

3374
02:24:38,870 --> 02:24:37,280
upset with him and and i said you know

3375
02:24:40,469 --> 02:24:38,880
what you did what you have to do but

3376
02:24:42,070 --> 02:24:40,479
you know that really harms friendships

3377
02:24:45,190 --> 02:24:42,080
when you you wouldn't tell

3378
02:24:48,950 --> 02:24:45,200
me i mean my god we were and

3379
02:24:51,270 --> 02:24:48,960
and during my during our uh my career

3380
02:24:51,990 --> 02:24:51,280
we were close bill and i were very close

3381
02:24:53,750 --> 02:24:52,000
uh

3382
02:24:55,429 --> 02:24:53,760
you know i you know he was my asset and

3383
02:24:56,469 --> 02:24:55,439
he fully understood everything he was

3384
02:24:59,030 --> 02:24:56,479
doing and

3385
02:25:00,070 --> 02:24:59,040
and he did what i told him to do we paid

3386
02:25:02,870 --> 02:25:00,080
him and

3387
02:25:04,710 --> 02:25:02,880
and and then for him to just go go out

3388
02:25:07,190 --> 02:25:04,720
and say this without

3389
02:25:08,469 --> 02:25:07,200
giving me some kind of heads up uh and

3390
02:25:11,030 --> 02:25:08,479
he and he told me he said i

3391
02:25:12,550 --> 02:25:11,040
i if i would have told you rick you

3392
02:25:14,469 --> 02:25:12,560
probably would have talked me into not

3393
02:25:15,830 --> 02:25:14,479
doing it

3394
02:25:17,670 --> 02:25:15,840
i don't know that i would have done that

3395
02:25:21,670 --> 02:25:17,680
um have you been in

3396
02:25:27,990 --> 02:25:24,870
i have yeah i've uh

3397
02:25:31,910 --> 02:25:28,000
i've met with bill

3398
02:25:35,590 --> 02:25:31,920
a couple times uh over the years

3399
02:25:38,630 --> 02:25:35,600
uh he always sends me a christmas card

3400
02:25:41,030 --> 02:25:38,640
and and i and he

3401
02:25:42,550 --> 02:25:41,040
puts his address on there but uh it's

3402
02:25:44,710 --> 02:25:42,560
not the right one

3403
02:25:46,870 --> 02:25:44,720
i tried to find him once a few years ago

3404
02:25:49,349 --> 02:25:46,880
uh probably four or five years ago

3405
02:25:50,630 --> 02:25:49,359
i was out in california and i thought he

3406
02:25:53,429 --> 02:25:50,640
was still in burbank

3407
02:25:54,389 --> 02:25:53,439
and um and and i went down there and

3408
02:25:55,750 --> 02:25:54,399
that

3409
02:25:57,510 --> 02:25:55,760
and the building wasn't even there now

3410
02:26:00,550 --> 02:25:57,520
they'd remodeled it and

3411
02:26:02,070 --> 02:26:00,560
nobody seemed to know who he was and

3412
02:26:03,590 --> 02:26:02,080
and then i went down to this thai

3413
02:26:07,670 --> 02:26:03,600
restaurant which is a

3414
02:26:09,990 --> 02:26:07,680
like three or four uh businesses down

3415
02:26:12,469 --> 02:26:10,000
and he always ate there and he knew the

3416
02:26:14,950 --> 02:26:12,479
people very well and i went in and asked

3417
02:26:16,309 --> 02:26:14,960
the owner if uh if he knew where bill

3418
02:26:19,270 --> 02:26:16,319
lived now

3419
02:26:20,389 --> 02:26:19,280
he said no bill left build up moved back

3420
02:26:23,349 --> 02:26:20,399
to pennsylvania

3421
02:26:24,230 --> 02:26:23,359
yeah he's uh yeah it's my understanding

3422
02:26:29,110 --> 02:26:24,240
he's a

3423
02:26:35,110 --> 02:26:32,550
uh uh yeah and i heard that he

3424
02:26:36,389 --> 02:26:35,120
well i heard that he had a he was a you

3425
02:26:37,910 --> 02:26:36,399
know he was good and

3426
02:26:39,910 --> 02:26:37,920
he was a good mechanic especially on

3427
02:26:43,030 --> 02:26:39,920
motorcycles he taught himself

3428
02:26:44,389 --> 02:26:43,040
and and i i understand that he's in uh

3429
02:26:46,790 --> 02:26:44,399
i can't remember the name of the place

3430
02:26:50,230 --> 02:26:46,800
in pennsylvania but he was in um

3431
02:26:52,389 --> 02:26:50,240
he worked at a motorcycle shop at one po

3432
02:26:53,670 --> 02:26:52,399
at one time at one point his brother i

3433
02:26:56,070 --> 02:26:53,680
think or maybe his son

3434
02:26:57,830 --> 02:26:56,080
owned it and then they sold it one of

3435
02:27:00,230 --> 02:26:57,840
them sold it and moved to florida

3436
02:27:01,510 --> 02:27:00,240
and and and bill remained there and

3437
02:27:03,990 --> 02:27:01,520
stayed there and

3438
02:27:05,590 --> 02:27:04,000
and was working at the uh that's that's

3439
02:27:07,190 --> 02:27:05,600
the last i heard i i don't

3440
02:27:08,790 --> 02:27:07,200
you may be right about a janitor i don't

3441
02:27:12,070 --> 02:27:08,800
know yeah that's uh

3442
02:27:15,510 --> 02:27:12,080
it's it's it's also uh

3443
02:27:19,429 --> 02:27:15,520
for the ufo community especially

3444
02:27:21,429 --> 02:27:19,439
those that are newer to what's going on

3445
02:27:22,790 --> 02:27:21,439
especially say the last three years

3446
02:27:24,389 --> 02:27:22,800
right with ttsa

3447
02:27:26,070 --> 02:27:24,399
which we'll discuss when we come back

3448
02:27:29,429 --> 02:27:26,080
after the break but

3449
02:27:32,469 --> 02:27:29,439
they don't understand the

3450
02:27:33,270 --> 02:27:32,479
the hills and valleys that the ufo

3451
02:27:36,710 --> 02:27:33,280
community

3452
02:27:40,389 --> 02:27:36,720
has has gone through the last 50 years

3453
02:27:43,429 --> 02:27:40,399
there has been a lot of situations that

3454
02:27:44,150 --> 02:27:43,439
uh we have gone through recovered from

3455
02:27:47,270 --> 02:27:44,160
and moved

3456
02:27:50,309 --> 02:27:47,280
on and this this event

3457
02:27:53,429 --> 02:27:50,319
in in las vegas was uh

3458
02:27:57,270 --> 02:27:53,439
a tremendous uh earthquake and there's

3459
02:28:04,389 --> 02:28:01,910
yes i i agree i i i agree

3460
02:28:05,030 --> 02:28:04,399
uh it was a shocker to a lot of people

3461
02:28:07,190 --> 02:28:05,040
even

3462
02:28:08,630 --> 02:28:07,200
within the government and you know they

3463
02:28:11,990 --> 02:28:08,640
i'd get calls and

3464
02:28:13,429 --> 02:28:12,000
why the hell did moore do this why

3465
02:28:15,590 --> 02:28:13,439
you know you had a hell of an asset

3466
02:28:17,110 --> 02:28:15,600
there why didn't he you know i i'd get

3467
02:28:22,150 --> 02:28:17,120
ripped all the time about it and

3468
02:28:26,389 --> 02:28:22,160
uh of course phil phil class uh had a

3469
02:28:27,670 --> 02:28:26,399
field day with that many did many did

3470
02:28:31,030 --> 02:28:27,680
but the question

3471
02:28:32,469 --> 02:28:31,040
uh immediately for everybody was okay

3472
02:28:36,950 --> 02:28:32,479
well if there's bill

3473
02:28:39,990 --> 02:28:36,960
then who else who else yeah and

3474
02:28:43,190 --> 02:28:40,000
true yeah let's take oh yeah

3475
02:28:45,830 --> 02:28:43,200
go ahead richard and there are there are

3476
02:28:47,510 --> 02:28:45,840
uh at least two that i know of and and

3477
02:28:50,150 --> 02:28:47,520
i'm sure there's many more

3478
02:28:52,550 --> 02:28:50,160
uh there's many more i know one person

3479
02:28:55,830 --> 02:28:52,560
who writes books uh all the time

3480
02:28:58,469 --> 02:28:55,840
used to be he i think he just

3481
02:28:59,750 --> 02:28:58,479
well book in a while he wrote one book

3482
02:29:03,990 --> 02:28:59,760
about roswell

3483
02:29:07,190 --> 02:29:04,000
uh and uh he uh he was a

3484
02:29:08,550 --> 02:29:07,200
he was a government that's it and he he

3485
02:29:10,630 --> 02:29:08,560
wrote in the book what the government

3486
02:29:12,150 --> 02:29:10,640
wanted him to

3487
02:29:13,510 --> 02:29:12,160
very interesting let's take our break

3488
02:29:15,590 --> 02:29:13,520
right here our guest tonight richard

3489
02:29:18,630 --> 02:29:15,600
dodie now we're heading into

3490
02:29:20,550 --> 02:29:18,640
overtime this is fade to black i

3491
02:29:21,910 --> 02:29:20,560
am your host jimmy church i want to

3492
02:29:23,910 --> 02:29:21,920
remind everybody what's going on

3493
02:29:25,270 --> 02:29:23,920
tomorrow night sheree and tony rathman

3494
02:29:27,349 --> 02:29:25,280
are here ghost hunting

3495
02:29:29,830 --> 02:29:27,359
thursday night fader night open lines

3496
02:29:31,910 --> 02:29:29,840
all night long this weekend i am hosting

3497
02:29:34,230 --> 02:29:31,920
the conscious life expo want you to go

3498
02:29:35,190 --> 02:29:34,240
to consciouslifeexpo.com for tickets and

3499
02:29:37,349 --> 02:29:35,200
info

3500
02:29:39,510 --> 02:29:37,359
and i'll be right back after this short

3501
02:29:50,020 --> 02:29:39,520
break stay with us it's overtime

3502
02:29:56,150 --> 02:29:50,030
with richard dodie stay with us

3503
02:30:00,469 --> 02:29:58,550
hey what up y'all biblical fox here and

3504
02:30:05,670 --> 02:30:00,479
you are listening to my boy

3505
02:30:08,950 --> 02:30:05,680
jimmy church on jimmychurchradio.com

3506
02:30:16,230 --> 02:30:08,960
despite popular opinion reading a book

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02:30:19,990 --> 02:30:18,309
this is jimmy of fade to black and i

3508
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take life change tea

3509
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3510
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3511
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3538
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3561
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3563
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3564
02:32:17,990 --> 02:32:15,600
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3565
02:32:20,550 --> 02:32:18,000
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3566
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tv again visit forbidden knowledge dot

3567
02:32:24,630 --> 02:32:21,120
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3568
02:32:25,670 --> 02:32:24,640
today are you intrigued by paranormal

3569
02:32:28,150 --> 02:32:25,680
talk radio

3570
02:32:29,349 --> 02:32:28,160
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3572
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3573
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3575
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3576
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3577
02:32:44,710 --> 02:32:43,200
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3578
02:32:47,590 --> 02:32:44,720
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3579
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3581
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this is kjcr jimmychurchradio.com

3582
02:33:22,880 --> 02:33:31,670
[Music]

3583
02:33:36,070 --> 02:33:33,670
welcome back fade to black i am your

3584
02:33:37,990 --> 02:33:36,080
host jimmy church

3585
02:33:40,309 --> 02:33:38,000
that's one of the most anticipated shows

3586
02:33:42,309 --> 02:33:40,319
of the year no doubt our guest tonight

3587
02:33:43,349 --> 02:33:42,319
richard dodie and we are going into

3588
02:33:45,510 --> 02:33:43,359
overtime

3589
02:33:48,630 --> 02:33:45,520
i knew that we would run out of time and

3590
02:33:52,230 --> 02:33:48,640
i do want to say to the audience look

3591
02:33:54,790 --> 02:33:52,240
so much uh to discuss with richard

3592
02:33:55,750 --> 02:33:54,800
all of it uh too it's just too many

3593
02:33:58,389 --> 02:33:55,760
subjects

3594
02:34:00,070 --> 02:33:58,399
and and and like richard said earlier

3595
02:34:01,750 --> 02:34:00,080
it's gonna take a couple hours just for

3596
02:34:02,950 --> 02:34:01,760
that one subject and that's what we're

3597
02:34:05,670 --> 02:34:02,960
doing tonight

3598
02:34:06,070 --> 02:34:05,680
um and we're doing the best that we can

3599
02:34:08,950 --> 02:34:06,080
and

3600
02:34:11,030 --> 02:34:08,960
richard thank you uh for hanging on for

3601
02:34:11,830 --> 02:34:11,040
an extra segment here for some overtime

3602
02:34:15,590 --> 02:34:11,840
because

3603
02:34:17,510 --> 02:34:15,600
i wanted to ask you about ttsa

3604
02:34:18,790 --> 02:34:17,520
and when we're talking about government

3605
02:34:21,910 --> 02:34:18,800
assets we're talking about

3606
02:34:24,070 --> 02:34:21,920
cia and counterintelligence and dia

3607
02:34:25,670 --> 02:34:24,080
and all of these different agencies when

3608
02:34:28,389 --> 02:34:25,680
you look at the staff

3609
02:34:29,349 --> 02:34:28,399
of ttsa which i have done over the last

3610
02:34:32,150 --> 02:34:29,359
three years

3611
02:34:32,870 --> 02:34:32,160
and i go down the list and 11 of 12

3612
02:34:36,230 --> 02:34:32,880
principal

3613
02:34:39,030 --> 02:34:36,240
employees at ttsa are uh

3614
02:34:40,630 --> 02:34:39,040
cia department of defense counter

3615
02:34:44,230 --> 02:34:40,640
intelligence

3616
02:34:47,590 --> 02:34:44,240
this is what their cv is and and

3617
02:34:49,349 --> 02:34:47,600
as presented to the public in a publicly

3618
02:34:53,110 --> 02:34:49,359
traded company

3619
02:34:56,150 --> 02:34:53,120
um is that an indication of

3620
02:34:59,030 --> 02:34:56,160
uh handling information uh

3621
02:35:01,030 --> 02:34:59,040
to be presented in a certain way it is

3622
02:35:05,990 --> 02:35:01,040
there a possibility that

3623
02:35:10,469 --> 02:35:09,030
yeah very possible considering uh that

3624
02:35:13,349 --> 02:35:10,479
the people on the board

3625
02:35:14,389 --> 02:35:13,359
i mean i i work for dr put off he was

3626
02:35:17,270 --> 02:35:14,399
you know

3627
02:35:19,030 --> 02:35:17,280
i don't think there's a better human

3628
02:35:21,910 --> 02:35:19,040
being on this planet

3629
02:35:23,429 --> 02:35:21,920
than dr puthoff he's a fantastic human

3630
02:35:25,990 --> 02:35:23,439
being

3631
02:35:26,550 --> 02:35:26,000
i worked for him for 11 years we worked

3632
02:35:30,950 --> 02:35:26,560
on some

3633
02:35:36,389 --> 02:35:30,960
really really highly sensitive projects

3634
02:35:38,389 --> 02:35:36,399
from darpa and and you know he would be

3635
02:35:40,150 --> 02:35:38,399
the number one person that i would have

3636
02:35:43,270 --> 02:35:40,160
on any kind of board

3637
02:35:45,750 --> 02:35:43,280
um and uh so

3638
02:35:46,469 --> 02:35:45,760
i can speak highly of him i'm not sure

3639
02:35:49,990 --> 02:35:46,479
of the others

3640
02:35:54,070 --> 02:35:50,000
and i know de long and and

3641
02:35:55,990 --> 02:35:54,080
and some of the others are uh

3642
02:35:57,750 --> 02:35:56,000
uh the other i think it said what's his

3643
02:36:00,950 --> 02:35:57,760
name uh similan

3644
02:36:02,950 --> 02:36:00,960
jim semivan yeah yeah simivan

3645
02:36:04,150 --> 02:36:02,960
uh you know he's an intelligence

3646
02:36:07,190 --> 02:36:04,160
community i didn't know him

3647
02:36:08,790 --> 02:36:07,200
in cia so i can't really speak much of

3648
02:36:12,150 --> 02:36:08,800
him but

3649
02:36:14,389 --> 02:36:12,160
you put these people together uh

3650
02:36:17,510 --> 02:36:14,399
i would say that there's a government

3651
02:36:23,910 --> 02:36:20,550
well for what for for what end

3652
02:36:24,630 --> 02:36:23,920
right is it to um obviously it's

3653
02:36:28,389 --> 02:36:24,640
information

3654
02:36:30,630 --> 02:36:28,399
it's also uh uh

3655
02:36:32,710 --> 02:36:30,640
an entertainment company you know

3656
02:36:36,070 --> 02:36:32,720
producing entertainment

3657
02:36:36,870 --> 02:36:36,080
uh vehicles and then you have a

3658
02:36:39,990 --> 02:36:36,880
purported

3659
02:36:42,790 --> 02:36:40,000
uh a technical division

3660
02:36:44,309 --> 02:36:42,800
uh with uh steve justice from skunk

3661
02:36:47,190 --> 02:36:44,319
works you know running that

3662
02:36:49,270 --> 02:36:47,200
in alien technology um and then you have

3663
02:36:52,389 --> 02:36:49,280
a research and investigating

3664
02:36:54,469 --> 02:36:52,399
uh allegedly again i don't

3665
02:36:55,830 --> 02:36:54,479
know the inner workings of ttsa but then

3666
02:36:59,990 --> 02:36:55,840
you have the other side

3667
02:37:03,429 --> 02:37:00,000
that is researching uh ufo and uap

3668
02:37:06,870 --> 02:37:03,439
incidents um that's uh

3669
02:37:09,270 --> 02:37:06,880
and if it's completely run by uh

3670
02:37:10,110 --> 02:37:09,280
uh government uh current government

3671
02:37:13,190 --> 02:37:10,120
employees and

3672
02:37:13,910 --> 02:37:13,200
ex-government employees that is a

3673
02:37:18,630 --> 02:37:13,920
message

3674
02:37:21,990 --> 02:37:18,640
that is controlled i would think

3675
02:37:25,270 --> 02:37:22,000
i agree yeah i agree um you know

3676
02:37:25,590 --> 02:37:25,280
you have uh there's so many people on

3677
02:37:32,469 --> 02:37:25,600
that

3678
02:37:35,910 --> 02:37:32,479
highly uh highly trained uh

3679
02:37:43,429 --> 02:37:40,150
what's his name uh one of them that

3680
02:37:45,349 --> 02:37:43,439
counter i think he's talking about

3681
02:37:48,150 --> 02:37:45,359
nuclear biological chemical

3682
02:37:49,750 --> 02:37:48,160
yes a specialist you have a brain

3683
02:37:50,389 --> 02:37:49,760
specialist do you have a brain

3684
02:37:53,910 --> 02:37:50,399
specialist

3685
02:37:57,030 --> 02:37:53,920
cia brain neuro

3686
02:37:59,270 --> 02:37:57,040
specialist that's a pretty interesting

3687
02:38:02,309 --> 02:38:00,469
yeah employee you talking about kick

3688
02:38:03,670 --> 02:38:02,319
green no i'm talking about somebody else

3689
02:38:05,590 --> 02:38:03,680
i think he's still there

3690
02:38:07,510 --> 02:38:05,600
but yeah there's i don't think kitt

3691
02:38:10,710 --> 02:38:07,520
green ever made it to the roster

3692
02:38:13,030 --> 02:38:10,720
officially well i don't i don't i i

3693
02:38:17,110 --> 02:38:13,040
think he's not officially but

3694
02:38:20,469 --> 02:38:17,120
um he was uh

3695
02:38:24,070 --> 02:38:20,479
he was connected in some way um

3696
02:38:28,070 --> 02:38:24,080
to it so yeah uh i

3697
02:38:29,990 --> 02:38:28,080
i i don't know i don't uh i've i've

3698
02:38:31,270 --> 02:38:30,000
spoken with some of them some of the

3699
02:38:33,510 --> 02:38:31,280
people i know

3700
02:38:35,110 --> 02:38:33,520
uh kit and doctor put off very good

3701
02:38:38,150 --> 02:38:35,120
friends with him and

3702
02:38:42,230 --> 02:38:38,160
uh they don't say a whole lot and

3703
02:38:45,429 --> 02:38:42,240
and i think there's there's a real

3704
02:38:47,190 --> 02:38:45,439
sensitive area uh

3705
02:38:49,990 --> 02:38:47,200
that they're they don't want to discuss

3706
02:38:53,030 --> 02:38:50,000
i think they advertise

3707
02:38:53,750 --> 02:38:53,040
you know science technology and things

3708
02:38:56,309 --> 02:38:53,760
but

3709
02:38:56,790 --> 02:38:56,319
i i don't know that they i think there's

3710
02:39:04,389 --> 02:38:56,800
some

3711
02:39:06,950 --> 02:39:04,399
uh ttsa that's uh doing things that that

3712
02:39:09,349 --> 02:39:06,960
is not reported i mean that's that's my

3713
02:39:13,510 --> 02:39:09,359
own opinion i don't know that for a fact

3714
02:39:15,670 --> 02:39:13,520
now how do we couple that with

3715
02:39:17,190 --> 02:39:15,680
uh the media the way that things have

3716
02:39:19,750 --> 02:39:17,200
been handled lately

3717
02:39:21,590 --> 02:39:19,760
uh not only through you know say tucker

3718
02:39:23,349 --> 02:39:21,600
carlson of course over at fox but the

3719
02:39:25,270 --> 02:39:23,359
rest of the media that has been

3720
02:39:27,190 --> 02:39:25,280
uh covering this over the last three

3721
02:39:30,389 --> 02:39:27,200
years and then

3722
02:39:33,750 --> 02:39:30,399
you know a tip and that that program

3723
02:39:35,429 --> 02:39:33,760
uh that lou elizondo ran allegedly

3724
02:39:37,990 --> 02:39:35,439
uh we don't know any of that officially

3725
02:39:38,710 --> 02:39:38,000
but uh now going all the way to the

3726
02:39:42,790 --> 02:39:38,720
senate

3727
02:39:43,190 --> 02:39:42,800
and the uap task force is this something

3728
02:39:48,630 --> 02:39:43,200
that

3729
02:39:50,150 --> 02:39:48,640
senate is really concerned about this

3730
02:39:52,150 --> 02:39:50,160
is this something that's just going to

3731
02:39:54,790 --> 02:39:52,160
go away and we're not going to hear

3732
02:40:00,309 --> 02:39:54,800
any more about it how do you see

3733
02:40:06,710 --> 02:40:03,670
i i was i would be ho

3734
02:40:10,710 --> 02:40:06,720
i hoped that there's going to be close

3735
02:40:13,990 --> 02:40:10,720
disclosure um you know

3736
02:40:16,389 --> 02:40:14,000
everything that they're doing

3737
02:40:18,309 --> 02:40:16,399
uh there's there's for for people

3738
02:40:19,910 --> 02:40:18,319
insiders like myself and

3739
02:40:22,550 --> 02:40:19,920
and all the other intelligence officers

3740
02:40:26,309 --> 02:40:22,560
that i keep contact with

3741
02:40:28,309 --> 02:40:26,319
uh over the ha i have over the years

3742
02:40:29,990 --> 02:40:28,319
and there's a retired a retired

3743
02:40:30,870 --> 02:40:30,000
intelligence officer association i'm a

3744
02:40:32,550 --> 02:40:30,880
member of

3745
02:40:35,750 --> 02:40:32,560
so we get together and talk about this

3746
02:40:37,510 --> 02:40:35,760
subject and

3747
02:40:39,670 --> 02:40:37,520
you know we're we're not surprised

3748
02:40:42,469 --> 02:40:39,680
because everything that's being

3749
02:40:43,110 --> 02:40:42,479
disclosed now we already knew about i

3750
02:40:45,750 --> 02:40:43,120
mean

3751
02:40:47,269 --> 02:40:45,760
there was a program always a program uh

3752
02:40:53,830 --> 02:40:47,279
from

3753
02:40:57,590 --> 02:40:53,840
slowly leaking out i think the uh

3754
02:41:00,950 --> 02:40:57,600
the atep is is the uh

3755
02:41:03,590 --> 02:41:00,960
just a front and i think there's so much

3756
02:41:05,670 --> 02:41:03,600
more and i think harry reid said it he

3757
02:41:07,590 --> 02:41:05,680
said there's so much more

3758
02:41:09,429 --> 02:41:07,600
to this subject that's not being

3759
02:41:11,190 --> 02:41:09,439
reported and the government doesn't want

3760
02:41:13,750 --> 02:41:11,200
you to know about

3761
02:41:15,269 --> 02:41:13,760
uh and i i actually think harry reid

3762
02:41:18,230 --> 02:41:15,279
knows

3763
02:41:20,469 --> 02:41:18,240
more than he's admitting to i think he

3764
02:41:23,590 --> 02:41:20,479
he knows a lot more

3765
02:41:25,910 --> 02:41:23,600
uh than than one of his briefers

3766
02:41:26,950 --> 02:41:25,920
when he was majority leader in the

3767
02:41:30,230 --> 02:41:26,960
senate

3768
02:41:32,309 --> 02:41:30,240
is a is a retired

3769
02:41:33,910 --> 02:41:32,319
or he's now retired at the time he was

3770
02:41:36,870 --> 02:41:33,920
an intelligence officer

3771
02:41:37,750 --> 02:41:36,880
for dia and he was uh on uh he was

3772
02:41:41,269 --> 02:41:37,760
loaned

3773
02:41:43,910 --> 02:41:41,279
to the harry reid staff and he's a

3774
02:41:44,710 --> 02:41:43,920
member of the retired the retired thomas

3775
02:41:47,910 --> 02:41:44,720
association

3776
02:41:50,790 --> 02:41:47,920
and a friend of mine um and he

3777
02:41:52,550 --> 02:41:50,800
he tells me this guy had a high level

3778
02:41:55,670 --> 02:41:52,560
cosmic security clearance

3779
02:41:58,870 --> 02:41:55,680
he read and that he knows a hell of a

3780
02:42:01,910 --> 02:41:58,880
lot more than he's talking about

3781
02:42:06,150 --> 02:42:01,920
when you uh uh

3782
02:42:08,469 --> 02:42:06,160
go to conferences today and you look at

3783
02:42:09,269 --> 02:42:08,479
the attendees and you're looking out in

3784
02:42:12,550 --> 02:42:09,279
the room

3785
02:42:15,670 --> 02:42:12,560
are there agents there that

3786
02:42:18,230 --> 02:42:15,680
are uh you know posing as attendees

3787
02:42:21,590 --> 02:42:18,240
right they got a little badge and things

3788
02:42:25,110 --> 02:42:21,600
but you recognize them and you know them

3789
02:42:28,150 --> 02:42:25,120
as as as government agents afos

3790
02:42:30,230 --> 02:42:28,160
i or or another agency that you've

3791
02:42:33,830 --> 02:42:30,240
worked with in the past oh

3792
02:42:37,590 --> 02:42:33,840
oh absolutely every single

3793
02:42:39,910 --> 02:42:37,600
uh ufo convention or or conference that

3794
02:42:40,950 --> 02:42:39,920
i've been to and i go to a lot of them

3795
02:42:43,110 --> 02:42:40,960
over the years

3796
02:42:45,269 --> 02:42:43,120
uh there's there's intelligence officers

3797
02:42:47,429 --> 02:42:45,279
at every single one of them

3798
02:42:48,790 --> 02:42:47,439
uh some of them i know or some of them i

3799
02:42:51,990 --> 02:42:48,800
can pick out

3800
02:42:55,110 --> 02:42:52,000
um in fact the last one i was at

3801
02:42:58,950 --> 02:42:55,120
um uh well no not the last one but the

3802
02:43:01,990 --> 02:42:58,960
the the mega con that i spoke at in 2019

3803
02:43:05,030 --> 02:43:02,000
um george knapp said

3804
02:43:05,830 --> 02:43:05,040
is that guy over there an intelligence

3805
02:43:07,750 --> 02:43:05,840
officer

3806
02:43:09,030 --> 02:43:07,760
what about her she's got to be

3807
02:43:10,389 --> 02:43:09,040
intelligence officer

3808
02:43:11,590 --> 02:43:10,399
i said well she's a dead giveaway

3809
02:43:12,710 --> 02:43:11,600
because she came in here in the air

3810
02:43:16,230 --> 02:43:12,720
force uniform

3811
02:43:18,790 --> 02:43:16,240
so i mean she's why would you

3812
02:43:20,230 --> 02:43:18,800
do that i don't i don't know why but

3813
02:43:21,349 --> 02:43:20,240
yeah sure enough they were and i

3814
02:43:23,910 --> 02:43:21,359
introduced myself and

3815
02:43:24,389 --> 02:43:23,920
and she was very open the other guy

3816
02:43:26,950 --> 02:43:24,399
wasn't

3817
02:43:28,950 --> 02:43:26,960
uh and and she fully admitted she works

3818
02:43:30,950 --> 02:43:28,960
for air force intelligence

3819
02:43:32,230 --> 02:43:30,960
she says i'm here just to find out what

3820
02:43:35,349 --> 02:43:32,240
is going to be just

3821
02:43:37,030 --> 02:43:35,359
disclosed how do you spot the fed

3822
02:43:39,110 --> 02:43:37,040
how do you spot the fed in a crowd what

3823
02:43:41,750 --> 02:43:39,120
are you looking for help me i need to

3824
02:43:44,230 --> 02:43:41,760
identify i like to play that game

3825
02:43:45,830 --> 02:43:44,240
uh i'll do it at conferences i'll say

3826
02:43:48,790 --> 02:43:45,840
okay let's play spot the fed

3827
02:43:50,389 --> 02:43:48,800
all right let's go right now uh how do

3828
02:43:53,110 --> 02:43:50,399
you do it

3829
02:43:55,910 --> 02:43:53,120
they're they're clean cut number one uh

3830
02:43:59,269 --> 02:43:55,920
most of them are very very clean cut

3831
02:44:02,950 --> 02:43:59,279
they uh have a professional appearance

3832
02:44:06,389 --> 02:44:02,960
uh and they uh are dressed very well um

3833
02:44:08,550 --> 02:44:06,399
the suit or or maybe a sports coat

3834
02:44:09,990 --> 02:44:08,560
uh and they're always with somebody else

3835
02:44:11,750 --> 02:44:10,000
and they're always together

3836
02:44:13,030 --> 02:44:11,760
i mean they're they're they're doing

3837
02:44:16,150 --> 02:44:13,040
everything together

3838
02:44:18,630 --> 02:44:16,160
and they stand away from everyone

3839
02:44:19,670 --> 02:44:18,640
they isolate themselves and they do that

3840
02:44:22,710 --> 02:44:19,680
because so they can

3841
02:44:26,389 --> 02:44:22,720
up so they can observe

3842
02:44:27,910 --> 02:44:26,399
everyone and and that's one of that's

3843
02:44:29,429 --> 02:44:27,920
that's the advice i would give you if

3844
02:44:32,550 --> 02:44:29,439
you're looking for one

3845
02:44:33,670 --> 02:44:32,560
um now there are there are some probably

3846
02:44:36,150 --> 02:44:33,680
that are

3847
02:44:37,190 --> 02:44:36,160
undercover i mean deep cover where you

3848
02:44:39,429 --> 02:44:37,200
probably wouldn't

3849
02:44:41,349 --> 02:44:39,439
be able to identify him because they

3850
02:44:44,630 --> 02:44:41,359
might have long hair they don't dress

3851
02:44:47,030 --> 02:44:44,640
very well and and but but but they

3852
02:44:49,190 --> 02:44:47,040
are i mean i saw one once a few years

3853
02:44:51,670 --> 02:44:49,200
ago i think it was a 2014

3854
02:44:52,230 --> 02:44:51,680
or whatever no the yeah i think it was

3855
02:44:55,510 --> 02:44:52,240
it's still

3856
02:44:58,469 --> 02:44:55,520
laughing uh it was 2014 when

3857
02:45:00,469 --> 02:44:58,479
uh i saw i saw a guy and i did i thought

3858
02:45:03,670 --> 02:45:00,479
i recognized him but i thought yeah

3859
02:45:05,429 --> 02:45:03,680
that's not him but the one of the other

3860
02:45:09,110 --> 02:45:05,439
ones that i was with

3861
02:45:10,870 --> 02:45:09,120
um that i befriended while i was there i

3862
02:45:14,150 --> 02:45:10,880
knew i knew him before

3863
02:45:14,710 --> 02:45:14,160
he said hey look over at steve and i

3864
02:45:17,110 --> 02:45:14,720
said that's

3865
02:45:18,389 --> 02:45:17,120
is that steve and then i announced his

3866
02:45:19,910 --> 02:45:18,399
last name yeah

3867
02:45:21,670 --> 02:45:19,920
i said what the hell is he undercover or

3868
02:45:23,910 --> 02:45:21,680
what and and

3869
02:45:25,269 --> 02:45:23,920
he said yeah yeah yeah he's trying to be

3870
02:45:27,990 --> 02:45:25,279
undercover why

3871
02:45:29,269 --> 02:45:28,000
no well nobody really cares here i mean

3872
02:45:31,269 --> 02:45:29,279
they know

3873
02:45:32,790 --> 02:45:31,279
most organizers know that the

3874
02:45:34,550 --> 02:45:32,800
intelligence officers are going to be

3875
02:45:38,070 --> 02:45:34,560
there

3876
02:45:40,550 --> 02:45:38,080
have uh you know fade to block um

3877
02:45:42,550 --> 02:45:40,560
and yeah you know you know the guests

3878
02:45:45,830 --> 02:45:42,560
i've had on the show have i

3879
02:45:49,110 --> 02:45:45,840
had an asset on this show

3880
02:45:57,910 --> 02:45:53,670
i'm positive you have i'm i'm

3881
02:46:00,230 --> 02:45:57,920
i'm sure you have um i can't

3882
02:46:02,469 --> 02:46:00,240
necessarily name the person but i know

3883
02:46:05,910 --> 02:46:02,479
one particular person you had

3884
02:46:09,110 --> 02:46:05,920
uh some years ago it was before i

3885
02:46:12,230 --> 02:46:09,120
i was on uh was definitely

3886
02:46:14,710 --> 02:46:12,240
um and he was pulling your leg uh

3887
02:46:16,389 --> 02:46:14,720
uh i i watched it later i didn't watch

3888
02:46:19,910 --> 02:46:16,399
it at the time exactly

3889
02:46:20,790 --> 02:46:19,920
but uh yeah yeah i know one but i'm sure

3890
02:46:26,309 --> 02:46:20,800
there

3891
02:46:28,389 --> 02:46:26,319
uh wonder and i think about you know i

3892
02:46:29,510 --> 02:46:28,399
okay first off richard i don't trust

3893
02:46:33,110 --> 02:46:29,520
anybody

3894
02:46:36,469 --> 02:46:33,120
right i just don't i don't i don't

3895
02:46:40,309 --> 02:46:36,479
um i'm contacted constantly and things

3896
02:46:43,429 --> 02:46:40,319
but i have to approach things

3897
02:46:45,830 --> 02:46:43,439
from that angle and if there's a

3898
02:46:46,950 --> 02:46:45,840
any counter intel or asset or anything

3899
02:46:49,830 --> 02:46:46,960
else out there that

3900
02:46:50,710 --> 02:46:49,840
that knows they know how i look at

3901
02:46:53,590 --> 02:46:50,720
things i am not

3902
02:46:55,190 --> 02:46:53,600
gullible i'm just not i i i don't

3903
02:46:59,510 --> 02:46:55,200
approach things

3904
02:47:02,550 --> 02:46:59,520
uh that way um but

3905
02:47:05,830 --> 02:47:02,560
going out there and playing this game is

3906
02:47:07,349 --> 02:47:05,840
is done for a reason and i i have to ask

3907
02:47:10,389 --> 02:47:07,359
myself that i do it all the time

3908
02:47:13,830 --> 02:47:10,399
why do it right why why why

3909
02:47:15,349 --> 02:47:13,840
do it if uh if if this show was done to

3910
02:47:17,110 --> 02:47:15,359
present information but it's also

3911
02:47:19,110 --> 02:47:17,120
entertainment and we have fun we talk

3912
02:47:22,309 --> 02:47:19,120
about food and movies and

3913
02:47:25,190 --> 02:47:22,319
and everything else on the show why

3914
02:47:26,230 --> 02:47:25,200
come on here and do that is it to play

3915
02:47:29,269 --> 02:47:26,240
me

3916
02:47:30,550 --> 02:47:29,279
or is it to play the audience what's the

3917
02:47:32,550 --> 02:47:30,560
intention

3918
02:47:33,990 --> 02:47:32,560
i i you know i don't know i i think

3919
02:47:37,269 --> 02:47:34,000
eagle the guy has

3920
02:47:40,389 --> 02:47:37,279
an ego or the person has an ego

3921
02:47:44,550 --> 02:47:40,399
are they trying trying to think

3922
02:47:50,950 --> 02:47:49,030
satisfy their own ability to deceive

3923
02:47:52,710 --> 02:47:50,960
some something like that i mean i'm not

3924
02:47:56,070 --> 02:47:52,720
a psychologist i'm sure psychology

3925
02:47:58,070 --> 02:47:56,080
could give a better uh reason but um

3926
02:47:59,990 --> 02:47:58,080
did you have christopher mellon on your

3927
02:48:03,110 --> 02:48:00,000
show no uh

3928
02:48:06,309 --> 02:48:03,120
he's he has agreed to come on the show

3929
02:48:09,670 --> 02:48:06,319
we just haven't uh gotten it arranged

3930
02:48:15,349 --> 02:48:09,680
okay but why would you ask

3931
02:48:19,269 --> 02:48:17,190
okay yeah let's uh let's keep me in the

3932
02:48:23,510 --> 02:48:19,279
legal side of things in the clear

3933
02:48:26,389 --> 02:48:23,520
but he's an interesting cat for me

3934
02:48:27,429 --> 02:48:26,399
um because of his family and where he

3935
02:48:28,870 --> 02:48:27,439
stands

3936
02:48:30,550 --> 02:48:28,880
he doesn't need to be out here talking

3937
02:48:33,429 --> 02:48:30,560
about ufos right

3938
02:48:34,389 --> 02:48:33,439
he's he's got the good life right

3939
02:48:36,550 --> 02:48:34,399
exactly

3940
02:48:39,110 --> 02:48:36,560
you know he's got one of the wealthiest

3941
02:48:42,389 --> 02:48:39,120
baking families in the world

3942
02:48:43,429 --> 02:48:42,399
and why would he be concerned and make

3943
02:48:45,830 --> 02:48:43,439
himself

3944
02:48:47,830 --> 02:48:45,840
concerned about the ufo question so it

3945
02:48:51,110 --> 02:48:47,840
makes me step back and go maybe

3946
02:48:54,230 --> 02:48:51,120
maybe he's on point maybe he really

3947
02:48:56,389 --> 02:48:54,240
wants to get to the bottom of this right

3948
02:48:59,510 --> 02:48:56,399
because he doesn't need to

3949
02:49:00,950 --> 02:48:59,520
why i mean he doesn't need to so i don't

3950
02:49:02,790 --> 02:49:00,960
know he's a very

3951
02:49:04,790 --> 02:49:02,800
out of everybody that's out there right

3952
02:49:05,830 --> 02:49:04,800
now he's he's the one that i find the

3953
02:49:08,389 --> 02:49:05,840
most interesting

3954
02:49:10,150 --> 02:49:08,399
uh when it comes to the subject um i

3955
02:49:12,309 --> 02:49:10,160
wanted to ask you this before

3956
02:49:13,190 --> 02:49:12,319
um i'll let you go i i almost forgot

3957
02:49:15,030 --> 02:49:13,200
about this

3958
02:49:16,870 --> 02:49:15,040
um i want to talk about linda moulton

3959
02:49:20,230 --> 02:49:16,880
howe for just a second

3960
02:49:21,990 --> 02:49:20,240
um her uh

3961
02:49:23,990 --> 02:49:22,000
her and i have spoken about this a few

3962
02:49:26,150 --> 02:49:24,000
times um

3963
02:49:30,309 --> 02:49:26,160
she was invited out to kirkland i

3964
02:49:37,750 --> 02:49:33,910
yes okay um and she was uh

3965
02:49:39,269 --> 02:49:37,760
uh invited into a room to look at some

3966
02:49:41,750 --> 02:49:39,279
documents

3967
02:49:44,150 --> 02:49:41,760
um was that again did you do this

3968
02:49:46,950 --> 02:49:44,160
directly with linda

3969
02:49:48,230 --> 02:49:46,960
yeah i did and it was a reason uh for a

3970
02:49:50,070 --> 02:49:48,240
particular reason i was

3971
02:49:53,510 --> 02:49:50,080
i was told to do it okay well that was

3972
02:49:55,990 --> 02:49:53,520
contacted that was my next question

3973
02:49:57,910 --> 02:49:56,000
okay so you think i just out of the wild

3974
02:50:00,630 --> 02:49:57,920
blue knew this woman i had no idea

3975
02:50:01,910 --> 02:50:00,640
who she was or i was i was informed that

3976
02:50:03,990 --> 02:50:01,920
there's a

3977
02:50:06,309 --> 02:50:04,000
there was an operation going on it was

3978
02:50:08,950 --> 02:50:06,319
being actually the operation was in

3979
02:50:09,910 --> 02:50:08,960
in new york city it wasn't in new mexico

3980
02:50:12,309 --> 02:50:09,920
but

3981
02:50:14,469 --> 02:50:12,319
there was a lead that came across to my

3982
02:50:16,870 --> 02:50:14,479
supervisor that there was this woman

3983
02:50:18,070 --> 02:50:16,880
by the name of linda howell she was a

3984
02:50:21,110 --> 02:50:18,080
former uh

3985
02:50:21,750 --> 02:50:21,120
television reporter or newscaster

3986
02:50:23,830 --> 02:50:21,760
something

3987
02:50:24,870 --> 02:50:23,840
out of colorado and she was doing

3988
02:50:28,870 --> 02:50:24,880
stories on

3989
02:50:32,630 --> 02:50:28,880
cattle mutilations but she um

3990
02:50:34,070 --> 02:50:32,640
had a co had an asset in washington dc

3991
02:50:34,870 --> 02:50:34,080
and they needed to know who this asset

3992
02:50:40,309 --> 02:50:34,880
was

3993
02:50:43,429 --> 02:50:40,319
of operation they call it

3994
02:50:46,469 --> 02:50:43,439
uh p.o

3995
02:50:47,590 --> 02:50:46,479
and i fought i read it and i said okay i

3996
02:50:49,269 --> 02:50:47,600
contacted her

3997
02:50:51,030 --> 02:50:49,279
i invited her out the base i got her

3998
02:50:52,150 --> 02:50:51,040
into the base i got her into the secure

3999
02:50:54,150 --> 02:50:52,160
facility

4000
02:50:55,830 --> 02:50:54,160
and i was told that i had to show her

4001
02:50:57,910 --> 02:50:55,840
these things now

4002
02:50:59,269 --> 02:50:57,920
one thing that a lot of people that they

4003
02:51:01,110 --> 02:50:59,279
know now but they didn't know

4004
02:51:02,870 --> 02:51:01,120
that everything was filmed there was a

4005
02:51:05,030 --> 02:51:02,880
two-way mirror behind where she was

4006
02:51:05,830 --> 02:51:05,040
sitting i mean in front of where she was

4007
02:51:09,030 --> 02:51:05,840
sitting

4008
02:51:09,590 --> 02:51:09,040
and everything was recorded i mean audio

4009
02:51:12,550 --> 02:51:09,600
and video

4010
02:51:14,070 --> 02:51:12,560
every single thing was recorded so she

4011
02:51:16,469 --> 02:51:14,080
couldn't come back and say something

4012
02:51:17,590 --> 02:51:16,479
and and she i gave her these documents

4013
02:51:19,910 --> 02:51:17,600
to read

4014
02:51:21,269 --> 02:51:19,920
and uh she did and i told her she

4015
02:51:22,950 --> 02:51:21,279
couldn't take any notes i was following

4016
02:51:26,230 --> 02:51:22,960
the script that i was given

4017
02:51:26,550 --> 02:51:26,240
and that was it i did what i was told to

4018
02:51:29,429 --> 02:51:26,560
do

4019
02:51:31,190 --> 02:51:29,439
and and it went on you know i did my

4020
02:51:34,550 --> 02:51:31,200
report and sent it on

4021
02:51:37,190 --> 02:51:34,560
to the uh the other district in new york

4022
02:51:39,670 --> 02:51:37,200
that was running this operation and and

4023
02:51:42,870 --> 02:51:39,680
trying to find out who her

4024
02:51:44,389 --> 02:51:42,880
uh source was in washington and

4025
02:51:47,030 --> 02:51:44,399
now one thing i have to say about linda

4026
02:51:49,750 --> 02:51:47,040
howell she's a smart cookie

4027
02:51:51,510 --> 02:51:49,760
she's very very brilliant i think she's

4028
02:51:54,230 --> 02:51:51,520
probably

4029
02:51:54,710 --> 02:51:54,240
i know i would say they say one of the

4030
02:52:03,030 --> 02:51:54,720
she

4031
02:52:06,469 --> 02:52:03,040
very very best

4032
02:52:09,910 --> 02:52:06,479
so did you read the documents

4033
02:52:15,190 --> 02:52:09,920
before you handed them to her did you

4034
02:52:17,590 --> 02:52:15,200
know the contents of those documents uh

4035
02:52:19,349 --> 02:52:17,600
you know the truth i got him out of an

4036
02:52:21,349 --> 02:52:19,359
envelope and it was a it was a

4037
02:52:22,870 --> 02:52:21,359
couriered envelope because it was cla

4038
02:52:25,269 --> 02:52:22,880
supposedly classified

4039
02:52:26,230 --> 02:52:25,279
i and i i re i briefly looked through

4040
02:52:29,190 --> 02:52:26,240
them but i don't

4041
02:52:29,590 --> 02:52:29,200
know that i actually read them all no i

4042
02:52:45,910 --> 02:52:29,600
i

4043
02:52:48,389 --> 02:52:45,920
told her or

4044
02:52:49,990 --> 02:52:48,399
how she knew of me i i don't i maybe i

4045
02:52:52,389 --> 02:52:50,000
knew at one time but

4046
02:52:54,550 --> 02:52:52,399
and uh and i gave her the documents to

4047
02:52:56,710 --> 02:52:54,560
read i i just followed the instructions

4048
02:52:58,630 --> 02:52:56,720
and that was it so uh you know i'm

4049
02:53:00,870 --> 02:52:58,640
guilty i probably didn't read all the

4050
02:53:02,150 --> 02:53:00,880
the the entire documents all of them i

4051
02:53:02,950 --> 02:53:02,160
think there were three of them maybe

4052
02:53:06,389 --> 02:53:02,960
four

4053
02:53:09,269 --> 02:53:06,399
and so the intention was uh for

4054
02:53:10,070 --> 02:53:09,279
linda to read something and turn around

4055
02:53:13,269 --> 02:53:10,080
and speak to

4056
02:53:15,990 --> 02:53:13,279
her asset in washington dc

4057
02:53:17,910 --> 02:53:16,000
and that would reveal who her contact

4058
02:53:22,469 --> 02:53:17,920
was

4059
02:53:25,830 --> 02:53:22,479
try to

4060
02:53:27,030 --> 02:53:25,840
recruit her uh if i could and you always

4061
02:53:30,070 --> 02:53:27,040
pitch people that you think

4062
02:53:31,910 --> 02:53:30,080
i mean everyone i mean when you're in

4063
02:53:35,269 --> 02:53:31,920
the intelligence community everyone can

4064
02:53:37,830 --> 02:53:35,279
help be helpful to you so you try to

4065
02:53:39,429 --> 02:53:37,840
if somebody has access to something you

4066
02:53:40,950 --> 02:53:39,439
might be able to use him at some point

4067
02:53:43,190 --> 02:53:40,960
down the road so you always pitch him

4068
02:53:43,990 --> 02:53:43,200
you always try to recruit him and she

4069
02:53:48,469 --> 02:53:44,000
was very

4070
02:53:51,910 --> 02:53:48,479
um open to two more meetings

4071
02:53:53,429 --> 02:53:51,920
uh with me and and and we had some other

4072
02:53:55,830 --> 02:53:53,439
meetings

4073
02:53:56,469 --> 02:53:55,840
but then i later introduced another

4074
02:54:03,269 --> 02:53:56,479
agent

4075
02:54:04,070 --> 02:54:03,279
try but she wasn't easily recruited she

4076
02:54:11,429 --> 02:54:04,080
was

4077
02:54:13,110 --> 02:54:11,439
um and she she could she could read us

4078
02:54:15,030 --> 02:54:13,120
she's a good reader people we call them

4079
02:54:17,429 --> 02:54:15,040
good read the people you know you

4080
02:54:19,190 --> 02:54:17,439
just know what this person is trying to

4081
02:54:20,070 --> 02:54:19,200
do to me or trying to get from me and

4082
02:54:30,230 --> 02:54:20,080
and

4083
02:54:31,990 --> 02:54:30,240
uh maybe she i don't think she was ever

4084
02:54:33,510 --> 02:54:32,000
an asset but we were trying to get

4085
02:54:35,110 --> 02:54:33,520
information from her

4086
02:54:37,110 --> 02:54:35,120
about this asset and i don't know that

4087
02:54:40,389 --> 02:54:37,120
that that ever happened

4088
02:54:43,269 --> 02:54:40,399
the last person i would try to uh

4089
02:54:44,389 --> 02:54:43,279
uh try funny business with is linda

4090
02:54:47,510 --> 02:54:44,399
moulton howe

4091
02:54:50,870 --> 02:54:47,520
i mean that's yes that's the wrong road

4092
02:54:51,349 --> 02:54:50,880
uh to go down i know her really really

4093
02:54:54,150 --> 02:54:51,359
well

4094
02:54:55,910 --> 02:54:54,160
and i have uh the utmost respect for but

4095
02:55:00,309 --> 02:54:55,920
she also scares the crap out of me

4096
02:55:03,670 --> 02:55:01,990
she will find everybody she's just one

4097
02:55:05,910 --> 02:55:03,680
of the smartest i mean she's a very

4098
02:55:07,429 --> 02:55:05,920
good investigator she is excellent she

4099
02:55:09,830 --> 02:55:07,439
is she is and very cool

4100
02:55:11,269 --> 02:55:09,840
too as well let me ask you this richard

4101
02:55:12,389 --> 02:55:11,279
before i let you go i only got a couple

4102
02:55:14,950 --> 02:55:12,399
of minutes left

4103
02:55:16,550 --> 02:55:14,960
this show tonight and you coming on for

4104
02:55:20,070 --> 02:55:16,560
two and a half hours

4105
02:55:21,830 --> 02:55:20,080
um uh which we advertised

4106
02:55:23,910 --> 02:55:21,840
did you have to get permission to do

4107
02:55:25,190 --> 02:55:23,920
this show did anybody comment to you

4108
02:55:27,190 --> 02:55:25,200
about this show

4109
02:55:28,230 --> 02:55:27,200
uh did anybody reach out to you about

4110
02:55:31,830 --> 02:55:28,240
fade to black and

4111
02:55:36,950 --> 02:55:31,840
are they listening now

4112
02:55:41,670 --> 02:55:39,910
somebody's listening uh no i don't have

4113
02:55:44,469 --> 02:55:41,680
to get permission from anyone i'm

4114
02:55:45,110 --> 02:55:44,479
past that security oath what i said

4115
02:55:48,950 --> 02:55:45,120
earlier when

4116
02:55:50,469 --> 02:55:48,960
when you beginning of this this program

4117
02:55:51,910 --> 02:55:50,479
there are things out there that i

4118
02:55:53,750 --> 02:55:51,920
probably won't talk about because

4119
02:55:55,110 --> 02:55:53,760
they're i know they're so classified and

4120
02:55:57,349 --> 02:55:55,120
i don't want to

4121
02:55:58,630 --> 02:55:57,359
endanger national security but talking

4122
02:56:00,710 --> 02:55:58,640
about ufos

4123
02:56:02,150 --> 02:56:00,720
is not dangering uh national security

4124
02:56:03,030 --> 02:56:02,160
and and what i know and what i was

4125
02:56:05,750 --> 02:56:03,040
briefed into

4126
02:56:06,550 --> 02:56:05,760
uh i'm ashamed of the government because

4127
02:56:07,910 --> 02:56:06,560
this

4128
02:56:09,990 --> 02:56:07,920
story should have been on a long time

4129
02:56:12,630 --> 02:56:10,000
ago now the

4130
02:56:13,590 --> 02:56:12,640
the the last question is is probably the

4131
02:56:16,710 --> 02:56:13,600
best one

4132
02:56:17,990 --> 02:56:16,720
which is uh disinformation right counter

4133
02:56:19,990 --> 02:56:18,000
intelligence

4134
02:56:21,910 --> 02:56:20,000
um and somebody that is a professional

4135
02:56:22,230 --> 02:56:21,920
at that and that has been trained at

4136
02:56:26,469 --> 02:56:22,240
that

4137
02:56:30,550 --> 02:56:26,479
like yourself how does the audience

4138
02:56:33,830 --> 02:56:30,560
trust you now how do they trust what you

4139
02:56:35,910 --> 02:56:33,840
are saying tonight on this show

4140
02:56:37,670 --> 02:56:35,920
well i think they're trusting me more

4141
02:56:40,710 --> 02:56:37,680
now than they did when i first

4142
02:56:41,590 --> 02:56:40,720
opened up years ago because a lot of

4143
02:56:44,710 --> 02:56:41,600
what i've said

4144
02:56:46,630 --> 02:56:44,720
has been verified uh and

4145
02:56:48,309 --> 02:56:46,640
and the you know cia just released a

4146
02:56:49,910 --> 02:56:48,319
whole bunch of documents that

4147
02:56:52,469 --> 02:56:49,920
shows that they were interested in space

4148
02:56:53,910 --> 02:56:52,479
debris and they admit that they had it

4149
02:56:55,750 --> 02:56:53,920
and things that i was talking about

4150
02:57:01,110 --> 02:56:55,760
years ago uh

4151
02:57:03,830 --> 02:57:01,120
speak at a conference and verified me

4152
02:57:05,429 --> 02:57:03,840
yeah but i mean i'm there's also a there

4153
02:57:06,790 --> 02:57:05,439
there's a segment out there that hate me

4154
02:57:08,390 --> 02:57:06,800
hates me and there's

4155
02:57:09,910 --> 02:57:08,400
uh i don't get as much uh

4156
02:57:12,950 --> 02:57:09,920
[Music]

4157
02:57:14,630 --> 02:57:12,960
nasty mail anymore but i do get some and

4158
02:57:17,429 --> 02:57:14,640
there's critics out there i

4159
02:57:18,950 --> 02:57:17,439
that will always be critics and there's

4160
02:57:19,510 --> 02:57:18,960
some people out there that were critics

4161
02:57:24,070 --> 02:57:19,520
that

4162
02:57:26,710 --> 02:57:24,080
me to talk want me to tell more about it

4163
02:57:27,990 --> 02:57:26,720
and i've told i mean disinformation is a

4164
02:57:30,070 --> 02:57:28,000
dirty game

4165
02:57:31,269 --> 02:57:30,080
if you're on the receiving end of it

4166
02:57:33,990 --> 02:57:31,279
it's a great game

4167
02:57:34,469 --> 02:57:34,000
if you're on the collecting end of it

4168
02:57:39,030 --> 02:57:34,479
and

4169
02:57:41,110 --> 02:57:39,040
the things i've done in the past

4170
02:57:43,990 --> 02:57:41,120
uh as far but i'm doing what the

4171
02:57:47,510 --> 02:57:44,000
government told me to do i did my job

4172
02:57:47,990 --> 02:57:47,520
and uh am i would i would i change

4173
02:57:50,389 --> 02:57:48,000
things

4174
02:57:51,190 --> 02:57:50,399
absolutely uh paul benoit's case i would

4175
02:57:53,750 --> 02:57:51,200
have changed

4176
02:57:55,110 --> 02:57:53,760
there's numerous other cases that i had

4177
02:57:56,630 --> 02:57:55,120
to deceive people

4178
02:57:58,230 --> 02:57:56,640
that i wouldn't have done probably

4179
02:57:59,750 --> 02:57:58,240
wouldn't have done it that way but

4180
02:58:01,670 --> 02:57:59,760
i did it the way the government told me

4181
02:58:04,469 --> 02:58:01,680
to do it and uh

4182
02:58:05,830 --> 02:58:04,479
and i did my job i would uh i would like

4183
02:58:07,030 --> 02:58:05,840
to have you back on the show where we

4184
02:58:10,710 --> 02:58:07,040
can discuss

4185
02:58:14,389 --> 02:58:10,720
uh some very specific uh uh

4186
02:58:17,590 --> 02:58:14,399
events and and one of them is

4187
02:58:21,349 --> 02:58:17,600
the images uh with paul benowitz

4188
02:58:24,790 --> 02:58:21,359
and what he saw taking off and landing

4189
02:58:26,469 --> 02:58:24,800
on the tarmac and and where those images

4190
02:58:29,349 --> 02:58:26,479
are today and the other thing is

4191
02:58:31,590 --> 02:58:29,359
i've only got 20 seconds left uh richard

4192
02:58:33,030 --> 02:58:31,600
those images of the mantid

4193
02:58:35,190 --> 02:58:33,040
you know today when we're talking about

4194
02:58:38,469 --> 02:58:35,200
the tic tac in the go fast video

4195
02:58:41,510 --> 02:58:38,479
and and the roosevelt the nimitz

4196
02:58:42,309 --> 02:58:41,520
that's that's not evidence of anything

4197
02:58:44,230 --> 02:58:42,319
to me

4198
02:58:46,150 --> 02:58:44,240
but if there if the government is

4199
02:58:49,750 --> 02:58:46,160
sitting on things with e

4200
02:58:52,070 --> 02:58:49,760
uh even one uh the the mantid

4201
02:58:53,269 --> 02:58:52,080
and these images and videos that you're

4202
02:58:56,389 --> 02:58:53,279
referring to

4203
02:58:57,830 --> 02:58:56,399
that's the stuff that is golden and i

4204
02:58:59,429 --> 02:58:57,840
i definitely want to discuss that

4205
02:59:02,070 --> 02:58:59,439
further thank you so much

4206
02:59:04,309 --> 02:59:02,080
and i want you to be safe and uh we're

4207
02:59:07,429 --> 02:59:04,319
in some trying times right now

4208
02:59:08,870 --> 02:59:07,439
uh with coven the pandemic be safe and

4209
02:59:10,790 --> 02:59:08,880
and all the best of you and your family

4210
02:59:12,550 --> 02:59:10,800
thank you so much richard

4211
02:59:14,389 --> 02:59:12,560
thank you jimmy i'll be back at anytime

4212
02:59:15,750 --> 02:59:14,399
you want me to great conversation

4213
02:59:18,550 --> 02:59:15,760
tonight thank you so much

4214
02:59:19,830 --> 02:59:18,560
and uh i'm going to run credits right

4215
02:59:22,950 --> 02:59:19,840
now because we

4216
02:59:24,309 --> 02:59:22,960
literally went 10 seconds over i'm going

4217
02:59:25,190 --> 02:59:24,319
to say to the network right now just

4218
02:59:28,070 --> 02:59:25,200
hang on

4219
02:59:29,670 --> 02:59:28,080
i will be out of here on time faded

4220
02:59:31,349 --> 02:59:29,680
black's executive producers rita

4221
02:59:33,429 --> 02:59:31,359
kamarian shows produced by hilton j

4222
02:59:35,670 --> 02:59:33,439
palmer renee dennis and kevin

4223
02:59:37,030 --> 02:59:35,680
announcers are steve harder gene vettel

4224
02:59:39,910 --> 02:59:37,040
mark d kobar

4225
02:59:41,950 --> 02:59:39,920
webmasters drew the geek music doug

4226
02:59:43,750 --> 02:59:41,960
aldridge intro space spaceboy

4227
02:59:45,349 --> 02:59:43,760
spaceboymusic.com paid to black is

4228
02:59:47,510 --> 02:59:45,359
produced by kjcr

4229
02:59:49,990 --> 02:59:47,520
for the game changer network this

4230
02:59:51,510 --> 02:59:50,000
broadcast owned copyrighted 2021 by fade

4231
02:59:52,070 --> 02:59:51,520
to black and the game changer network

4232
02:59:53,910 --> 02:59:52,080
inc

4233
02:59:55,429 --> 02:59:53,920
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

4234
02:59:56,070 --> 02:59:55,439
copied or used anywhere in the known

4235
02:59:57,750 --> 02:59:56,080
universe

4236
02:59:59,349 --> 02:59:57,760
without written permission from fade to

4237
03:00:00,550 --> 02:59:59,359
black of the game changer network i'm

4238
03:00:03,750 --> 03:00:00,560
your host jimmy church

4239
03:00:06,950 --> 03:00:03,760
tomorrow night tony and sheree

4240
03:00:10,550 --> 03:00:06,960
rathman it's all ghosts all night long

4241
03:00:24,720 --> 03:00:10,560
until then i want everybody to be safe

4242
03:00:36,830 --> 03:00:24,730
it's time to fade to black

4243
03:00:36,840 --> 03:00:43,770
so